Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free
Ride Free, where we talk to people who

have lived self-actualized lives on
their own terms, and find out how they

got there, what they do, how we can
get there, what we can learn from them.

How to live our best lives, find
our own definition of success,

and most importantly, find joy.

I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.

New York Times bestselling
author of the Horse Boy.

Founder of New Trails Learning
Systems and long ride home.com.

You can find details of all our programs
and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.

Welcome back to Live Free, Ride
Free, where we talk to people who are

living self actualized lives, living
life on their own terms and making

a go of it in whichever way they are
interested in following their passions.

Making a livelihood.

What can we learn from these people?

It's what we all aspire to do this week
I've got Suki Baxter now if you don't

know who she is just go on YouTube and
type her in you're gonna find some videos

that an awful lot of people watch and
I like many of you I'm always a bit

Curious about how do these people get
so many people to watch their videos?

I mean, yes, their content's
amazing and her content is amazing.

We're going to talk about it.

So obviously you can't get
that without amazing content.

How do they take it beyond that?

How do they make a living from it?

More than that.

How did they get to the point
where they were making that

amazing content in the first place?

So what is Ziggybax's amazing content?

Well, it has to do with
your nervous system.

It has to do with your brain and it
has to do with Feeling better about

stuff in a real way not in an ephemeral
way I don't want to give too much away

because Suki's gonna talk us through some
pretty interesting stuff about how to

live happier Not just to live free ride
free more self actualized, but really

genuinely some secrets of happiness here
So without further ado welcome Suki.

Can you tell us please?

Sukie Baxter: Who you are.

Thank you so much for having me.

I am an embodiment coach.

I, as you said, have a YouTube channel
that has gotten quite a few followers.

And I came into this work
through the door of the body.

So, I spent about 15 years having a
clinical body work practice where I

worked 1 on 1 with clients and in the
process of understanding how bodies work.

A lot of people who came to me had a lot
of physical pain and postural complaints.

I had to really start asking myself some
questions about where the symptoms were

coming from and all of my questions.

Continuously led me back
to the nervous system.

So, over the course of the 15 years
that I was working on people, I

just kept coming back to the nervous
system as the foundational piece that

was contributing to a lot of these
challenges that I was seeing in people.

And when I really began to delve
into the nervous system, I.

Discovered that it was related to far
more than just your physical posture

and pain or lack thereof, but really
to how you were experiencing how person

experiences life, whether that's in a
positive way, a pleasurable, pleasant

way, or whether it creates a life that
is challenging and full of struggle.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay, you
said very Quickly there.

You had a physical therapy practice.

What did you do?

What were you doing?

What was your hands on?

Were you a massage therapist?

Were you, what

Sukie Baxter: were you?

Yeah, so I am technically a licensed
massage therapist and I practice a form

of body work that is called rolfing,
which some people may have heard of.

Some people may not have, it's got
kind of a grassroots following.

But rolfing is a.

Way of approaching the body
from a structural perspective.

So really looking at how all the parts
and pieces of your body work together to

create optimal posture and, and movement.

So when a person would come in, I would
do a posture and movement assessment,

have a conversation with them observe them
walking, standing, moving in various ways.

And then approach helping them
to be more integrated and to have

basically less friction in their
movement from a very holistic way.

So, oftentimes, when we go to a
practitioner, a specialist for

maybe we have a sore shoulder or a
sore hip a lot of times the work is

focused on that region of the body.

So you go in, you say,
I have a sore shoulder.

Your doctor looks at your shoulder.

Why is this shoulder sore?

When someone would come to me,
I would look at their shoulder.

And also, how is that shoulder
connected to a ribcage?

And a torso and how is that
rib cage balanced on the

pelvis and so on and so forth.

So really backing up and looking
at it from a systems level

Rupert Isaacson: approach.

And when you do this Rolfing thing, are
you, is it like a massage and that you're

going in and you sort of squeeze with your
hands in the way that we think of, or, you

know, put your elbow on or whatever the
way we think of as a massage therapist?

Or are you doing something else?

Something more specific?

Yeah,

Sukie Baxter: I think that's
a really great question.

So, yeah, a lot of times it looks
like classic body work, right?

So some, you have somebody come in,
they, they're standing in a room,

you do a movement posture assessment,
and then typically I would get them

on a table and do various things
that look like massage, right?

Applying pressure.

I may have them move while
I'm applying pressure.

But yeah, there's,
there's physical contact.

So it is manual manipulation,
manual therapy, however you want

to classify that which is why
it's classified under massage.

But the experience of it is
usually a little bit different,

which is something that's a little
bit hard to verbally convey.

But when people experience it, they're
like, oh, yeah, this is different.

But really, I, I think what's
really interesting is that this is

what led me to the nervous system.

Right?

So when somebody gets.

A body work of any kind.

What's really going on there?

And what I was noticing was that I
would have these clients come in.

Some of these clients, I swear to
you, just being in the room with me,

they would start to change and shift,
like just having a conversation.

There was no physical contact whatsoever.

When these people started to
change, it was so easy to have

their bodies shift other people.

I.

I'm telling you, like no amount
of pressure that I applied

seemed to have an effect.

And that's really where I
started asking the question.

Okay.

I've been told that what I'm
doing here is like breaking

up adhesions in their fascia.

So rolfing uses a lot of myofascial
release, myofascial type techniques.

And I was, I was told in my training,
like we're, we're doing all these

things to break up adhesions or
separate different sheets of fascia.

So they glide, but all
these mechanical things.

And I was like, but.

I'm applying pressure to all these
different people with differing results.

So something else might be going on here.

And I just, even at the inception, I was
like, I think it's in the nervous system.

I didn't know.

I didn't have a lot of you know, this is,
this is BG, as I say, like, before Google.

So there wasn't nearly as
much information available.

And I, I didn't know where to go
and who to ask, but I just started

Thinking that there seems to be
a nervous system component here.

It seems to have something to
do with how a person senses the

contact that is being applied.

And over time, as I learned a lot more
and learned how the body works, I was

like, yeah, actually, that is true.

And I filled in many, many, many holes and
gaps and knowledge and I'm still learning

as we all are, because we're still
discovering how all of this works, but.

But over and over again, I kept
coming back to, yeah, it's in the

sensing, it's in the body's ability
to feel and to have that sensory

information processed by the brain.

That's what's actually changing the
map of the body and the posture,

but there's also all these other
wonderful effects as, you know, as you

mentioned, that make us so much happier.

When our nervous system is optimally
functioning and that was the other piece

of it was that some of my clients would
come in and I would just see their entire

lives change where people would You
know, leave really toxic relationships.

They would leave careers that
were burning them out and making

them miserable and unhealthy.

They would make these dramatic
changes in their lives.

And it seemed coincidental.

It seemed to, it seemed to coincide
with the work that we were doing and

I want us to know, okay, so why are
these people like, really coming into

their own, really having more agency
over themselves, really Finding a way

to follow what feels good for them and
create that life that makes them happy.

Like, how is this physical contact
creating that kind of a change?

And again, it led me
to the nervous system.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

So before we go to the nervous
system, it's interesting.

I mean, we, we, this podcast called
Live Free, Ride Free, and it sounds

like you are helping people to do
that, to liberate themselves and self

actualize through the nervous system.

We're going to go back to that.

And I want to know how, however, there's
some questions I've got based on some

things that you said, which some terms
I want to clarify, because I'm sure

that a lot of listeners might not know.

So we should tell them what is fascia,
what is something that is myofascial, and

when you talk about sensing, what is that?

So can we start with fascia?

What is fascia?

Sukie Baxter: Yeah.

So fascia is a type of tissue.

It's a connective tissue within the body.

It's one of the most pervasive
tissues within the body.

You have quite a lot of it.

Oftentimes you will hear People say
that it wraps around things like

wraps around the muscle bellies
and kind of is under your skin.

So it covers things, but it
actually permeates your body

down to the cellular level.

So if we could magically put you,
Rupert, into some kind of a solution

that would dissolve everything in your
body, that was not fascia, we would

have a 3d imprint of Rupert, which is
different from a lot of things, right?

So if we just had your skeletal structure,
you know, we would, we would see your

bones, but we wouldn't actually see your.

Your facial features and your, you
know, the musculature of your body

and how all of that was developed.

If we just had your skin, we would
see the outside, but there'd be no,

you know, in no inside no innards.

We wouldn't really be able to know what
the inside organization of your body

looked like fashion gives us all of that.

It would give us almost like a spider
web, like, imprint of your body.

And fascia has been something that people
have been looking at as there's, there's

quite a lot of cells in fascia that sense.

So we'll talk about that in a second.

That sense where we are in space,
that sense stretching and vibration

and movement in our bodies.

And so, fascia is kind of the organ of.

Consciousness or interoception, or
people quantify that differently, but

it, it's a, it's a type of tissue that
both supports our body and then gives

us a lot of information about our
body state and our body's movement.

Rupert Isaacson: So you say an organ,
do you think of it as an organ?

Sukie Baxter: Well, I don't know
that it classically is considered

an organ that's just a word
that people use to describe it.

Right, but do you,

Rupert Isaacson: do you feel that
that's an apt description with it,

with the work that you've done?

Sukie Baxter: I think it's an organ
similarly to the way skin is an organ.

Okay.

Rupert Isaacson: Like an internal
skin, an internal sense of skin.

Sukie Baxter: Exactly.

But it doesn't it doesn't do
the same things as skin, right?

It doesn't sweat.

It doesn't do all of those things,
because that would be awkward if you're

sweating around your stomach or something.

Yeah, exactly.

So I, so I don't know if like, if
we were being like really, you know,

linear, like Western medicine type of
scientific, is it technically an organ?

I don't know if but yeah, you could
say it's an organ of consciousness

or an organ of something.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so consciousness.

So is it, so when you were describing
it, it sounds, the first thing

that I thought was it sounds wet.

It sounds like a watery thing.

And I remember from the days when
I used to hunt deer and things like

that, and I would skin them and
you would, you know, peel back the

skin and then there would be this.

Jelly like thing that was like a bubble
wrap around things and I presume that

that is the fascia or part of it.

Anyway it was pretty wet.

I suppose our bodies are, you
know, 75 percent water or whatever,

but it's interesting that you
talk about consciousness there.

Do you feel that your fascia is a
conductive part of the body that,

that conducts information from
one part of the body to the other?

And if so, how does it differ?

I know I'm going down
a bit of a rabbit hole.

How does it differ from
your nervous system?

Or do you think it's part of?

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, I
think, I think it is.

I think everything is
everything to be honest.

So, so, so, and this is kind of, I think a
question that I come up against a lot in a

lot of different areas where people like,
well, you know, they look at this piece of

us now, like, this seems really important.

They get really fixated on that piece.

Fascia is an important piece, but
it's not important on its own.

In my opinion.

I think it's important in that
it's connected to a system.

It's it's sensing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Our internal environment, it's
sensing our external environment,

and then it's conveying that to our
brain via nervous system processes.

If we didn't have those nervous
system processes to receive that

information, it wouldn't really
matter that we had the fascia.

So the whole system is what's important.

Rupert Isaacson: Is it a bit like
the silica in a master keyboard?

I don't

Sukie Baxter: know.

I don't know how keywords
are put together.

Maybe.

But, but I, I think people get sort
of like, aha, this is the thing.

And they get really fixated on that.

And that is very it's very science based.

It's, you know, science seeks to kind
of take things apart to their smallest

component, which is really beneficial.

It helps us to understand things.

But we, we often kind of get
fixated on these smaller pieces and

lose sight of the bigger, Picture
so fascia is part of our system.

You asked about myofascia.

So when you say myofascial
myo means muscle.

So it's muscle fascial.

So you're talking about the, the
muscle and the fascia together.

So, myofascial release,
what that literally means is

we're releasing the muscle.

Like lengthening, you know, relaxing,
reducing tension and we're stretching the

fashion, but that, that brings me full
circle back around to what I was saying,

which is that what I was taught was, you
know, we're, we're, we're doing that.

We're stretching, we're mechanically,
like, if you think about like a plastic

bag, like a grocery bag, if you stick
your thumb in it and you kind of stretch

it out how it, how it kind of creates
a pocket or a pucker in the, in the

plastic, that was how I was taught.

We were affecting the body.

But my, my actual clinical experience did
not bear that out because I was like, I'm

the same person for all of these people.

I'm applying, you know, pressure
from my body to their body, but

I'm getting different results.

So why is it working for this person
with a feather touch and that person

with extreme amounts of pressure?

We're not having the same results.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay, and this
process goes on for how long?

You're, you're rolfing, you've got
your practice, people are coming

in, they're lying on your table,
you're, you're, you're noticing

all these different things.

Some of them are having these huge
life, positive life changing events.

Some you don't even have to touch and
you seem to get a positive effect.

Some, no matter how much
you touch them, not so much.

How long is that going on before
you go, I want to do a deep

dive into the nervous system?

Sukie Baxter: It was an ongoing process.

It was more that every time I tried
to learn something new, I sort of

came back to the nervous system.

So, I started with studying a lot
of energy work because I was like,

is there an energy work component?

And I think there is but it was,
it was ultimately unsatisfying for

me because I, it still felt like.

Okay.

But it's very random.

How do I actually, yeah, exactly.

I love energy work.

I think it's really great, but I
just didn't feel like it was tangible

enough for me to feel confident
that when a person came into me

and I also do this work on horses
or have done this work on horses.

So when, when a human would come in
or when I was working with a horse,

I was like, how can I kind of.

I don't know tangibly that
I'm having an impact here.

And energy work was just, like,
vague is a really good word.

And some people are, you know, they
feel it and they're really into it.

And other people, it's like,
they can't access at all.

So, so, so That was a piece of it.

But then also the nervous system runs on,
you know, electricity, which is energy.

So again, I was like, okay, let's
go back to the nervous system.

And I just sort of everything that I
did kept bringing me back to the nervous

system is our essentially our human or
mammalian really, because not just human,

but our mammalian operating system.

And if we're affecting that, if we can
understand how we're affecting the nervous

system then Like you said, we can really
liberate people because the other thing

that I kept running into in my studies was
these sort of like limiting blueprints of

how to, how to control your thoughts or
how to excavate, you know, quote, limiting

beliefs, or, you know, basically how to
control yourself in a way to be happy.

And.

And that didn't seem to really
work for me because, because

not all people are the same.

For me, I wanted to strip away all the
layers of what a person isn't so that they

have the ability to grow into what they
naturally and inherently are, which is

going to look different for you than for
me, than, you know, for, for everybody

out there, we're all individuals.

So let's

Rupert Isaacson: go from vague to vagal.

Tell us what you found out
about the nervous system.

Sukie Baxter: So when I landed on
what is called polyvagal theory,

and I can define that term, but
it's called polyvagal theory.

It really My mother's

Rupert Isaacson: name is Polly
and she can be a bit vague.

It's true sometimes.

Sukie Baxter: And probably in many ways.

When I landed on that, I It
seemed to really map with what

I was observing in people.

So, polyvagal theory is a
theory that was put forth by a

gentleman named Steven Porges.

And what Steven Porges found is that
there's a very large nerve, which we

did know about, but he didn't discover
the nerve, but he found that this very

large nerve called the vagus nerve
it's called the vagus nerve because

vagus comes from the vagus nerve.

It's not Las Vegas Vegas.

It's, I was, I was hoping it's
from the Latin word for wandering

and it's a very long nerve.

So it, it wanders from your cranium
down through your neck through

your upper torso and then into your
viscera deep into your viscera.

And so if you look up, you know, an
image of the vagus nerve, it's this,

this big tangly long wandering thing.

And what what Stephen Porges found is
that this vagus nerve is it functions

to help regulate our stress response.

And his theory is that there are multiple
branches of this vagus nerve and that

these branches have different functions,
which is why it's called polyvagal theory.

So poly coming from many.

The word for many vagal from
the vagus nerve and then

theory because it is a theory.

And I always want to emphasize that
because there's a lot of people

talking about exactly how this all
works physiologically within the body.

We're still learning.

I think in 10 years, we're going
to know a lot more and we may

have a completely different.

Map at that time.

It's growing.

It's evolving.

But it's a, it's a theory.

And so I always like to keep in
mind that the, that it's a map.

It's not the territory, which is
the common saying in lots of fields,

but it's common in body work.

The map is not the territory.

So.

It's just, it just gives us a
framework for beginning to understand

the stress response and it does map.

very cleanly with what I and a lot of
other practitioners of various fields have

found observationally in our clients in
terms of how stress functions and what

it does to us and how that is observed.

Rupert Isaacson: Can you give us the sort
of breakdown 101 polyvagal for dummies?

Yeah.

Sukie Baxter: So the polyvagal theory
the, the simple breakdown is that

you basically have three states
in polyvagal theory, you have the

ventral vagal ventral meaning front.

So this is the front
branch of your vagus nerve.

Stephen Porges identified this as the
branch of your vagus nerve that is

responsible for social engagement.

So the ability to connect to other
people and animals, the ability

to have empathy, the ability to co
regulate meaning that we can kind of.

Symbiotically feel what the
other is feeling and come into

a similar state as another

Rupert Isaacson: person.

And I'm listening to reggae and having
a beer and feeling iry and having a hug.

I'm in my bedroom.

There you go.

Okay.

Sukie Baxter: Yes.

Cool.

Got it.

Absolutely.

It's, it's basically where
all the good stuff in life is.

The, the, the love, the joy, the
happiness, the, you know, the excitement,

the, all the, all the things that we
think of as things we want to experience.

Rupert Isaacson: That's all
down the front of my tummy.

Sukie Baxter: Ventral.

Front of your tummy.

Ventral bagel, according to the, gorgeous.

Yep.

Then you have your
sympathetic nervous system.

So, your sympathetic nervous
system is responsible for your

fight or flight response, which
a lot of people are Is ventral

Rupert Isaacson: parasympathetic?

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so your vagus
nerve is the main nerve of your

parasympathetic nervous system.

Although I will, like,
little asterisk here.

There is research that is finding
that the vagus nerve can have an

activating effect when stimulated.

So I, I'm still looking into this
because I'm, it's really hard to get

a grip on what exactly that means.

Rupert Isaacson: But for
dummies at this stage, front

ventral parasympathetic, good.

Yes.

And then, so the other
one is dorsal, right?

Sukie Baxter: Yes, so your vagus
nerve is parasympathetic, your

sympathetic is fight or flight.

Your parasympathetic is rest and digest,
your sympathetic is fight or flight.

If you can just kind of get that piece
down, that's the simple explanation.

But

Rupert Isaacson: are there not two
branches of the vagal nerve doing both?

Right.

So front one ventral, back one dorsal.

Sukie Baxter: Correct.

So, so if we go down one step from
your ventral vagal, we've got your

sympathetic nervous system, different
branch of your nervous system,

but that's your fight or flight.

This is what people think of when
they think about, I'm stressed.

This is tension.

This is anxiety.

This is agitation.

This is, you know, like clenching
jaw, tight neck and shoulders, all of

that stuff lives in the sympathetic.

It's a, this is a mobilizing
branch of your nervous system.

So it's what gets us up
and doing stuff basically.

Hey, there's a threat to your survival.

You better take action or you're going
to get eaten by the lion which is bad.

So one step down from that, you have what
you mentioned, which is your dorsal bagel.

the dorsal branch of your vagus nerve.

So the dorsal vagal response or
dorsal vagal states dorsal being

like a dorsal fin, meaning the back.

So you've got your ventral front
dorsal back of your vagus nerve.

And this is your shutdown or immobilizing
branch of your nervous system.

You can think about this
like you're playing possum.

And like you mentioned, the vagus
nerve is the parasympathetic nerve.

Parasympathetic can be I'm connected
to another person, but it can also be

I'm shutting you down because you've
been in sympathetic for so long that

we need to pull the emergency brake
or your heart's going to explode.

You cannot live in
sympathetic all the time.

We are meant to have a sympathetic
response to dispatch the threat.

You either run away from it
and survive or you fight it.

And survive, or you die which,
at which point, game over.

It's supposed to be

Rupert Isaacson: over pretty quickly.

It's

Sukie Baxter: supposed to
end, and then we discharge it.

Unfortunately for humans, because
of the way we live in this very

contrived world we have a lot of
stimulation coming at us all the time.

Just a lot of noise, a lot of sensory
noise and just a lot, and we even have

mental stress, which is not, I don't
think zebras sit around worrying about

how they're going to pay their taxes.

I don't know, I haven't really
chatted with a lot of zebras, but

I think it's probably unlikely.

So these things are all essentially
threats to our survival that keep us.

In sympathetic quite a lot.

If you stay in that state over
a prolonged period of time, it

does a lot of really bad things.

So short term stress is very beneficial.

I think that's 1 of the
misnomers of stress is the

people think it's always bad.

Short term stress can actually
activate your immune system.

It's how you you know,
get over being sick.

It can, it does a lot of really
good things in short duration.

Right.

For prolonged or chronic stress is
very, very damaging to our health.

It decreases our brain matter, it
unravels our telomeres, it does

all kinds of horrible things.

What's a telomere?

A telomere.

That's a good question.

A telomere is let me find
the actual definition because

I am going to get it wrong.

It is a compound structure
at the end of a chromosome.

So it's a structure inside of our
nervous system that basically They

protect our body from aging and
they naturally unravel over time.

But what, when you have chronic
stress, they unravel more quickly.

So it accelerates aging.

It accelerates degeneration
within your body.

It accelerates the, you know, we,
we have a natural degradation over

time of our body as it copies itself.

And we produce new cells.

Each Xerox copy is a little bit
less accurate, a little more fuzzy.

But when, when.

We have chronic stress.

Those telomeres do, as I
understand it, get shorter.

How do we spell telomere?

Telomere is TEL T-E-L-O-M-E-R.

Rupert Isaacson: Etel.

T-E-L-O-M-E-R-E?

Yes.

Telomere.

Okay, cool.

Interesting.

All right.

Yes.

Something I didn't know.

Okay, good.

So by the way, just I have
a quick question to clarify.

You're saying that the
ventral vagal nerve.

is a one branch of the vagal nerve.

But you see, I couldn't tell if you're
talking about the dorsal as something

that's not the vagal nerve, but surely are
they not two branches of the same nerve?

One is about feeling good, one is
about feeling bad, effectively.

Sukie Baxter: It's, yeah, I mean, yes,
there are two branches of the same nerve.

Okay.

That's, that's the whole polyvagal, right?

Multiple branches.

Rupert Isaacson: And I've got one
down the front, one down the back.

In general, my front one is
associated with feel good.

In general, my back one
is associated with not.

Sukie Baxter: Yes.

I, I'd say, I, I'm, I'm always
hesitant to use the words good and bad.

One is a little bit more pleasant and
one is a little bit more unpleasant.

Rupert Isaacson: But they're
both there to, to serve the

function to keep you alive.

Sukie Baxter: And yeah, and,
and, and I, I think it's really

important to say that there's no.

State of your nervous system.

That's wrong or bad.

And I think this is where like, I get a
lot of people saying, well, I, I've done

some work to heal my nervous system and
I felt better for a short period of time.

And then and then I, I felt anxious
again, or I felt depressed again,

or I felt whatever again or I felt
lethargic or I felt exhausted.

And this seems wrong.

Like I I'm doing it wrong, or
it isn't working or whatever.

They're, you know, whatever they
determine is the story around that.

We need all of our nervous system states.

We, they're there for a reason.

And so the goal is not to get rid of
any of these states or to live, you

know, eternally in ventral vagal.

That would be great.

But when that lion comes around
and you're in ventral vagal,

you're gonna be like, hey, dude.

Yeah, pretty kitty.

Can I pet you?

And you're gonna get eaten.

Like we need our sympathetic response.

We need these aspects
of our nervous system.

The goal isn't to get rid of them.

The goal is just to not get

Rupert Isaacson: stuck in them.

Right.

Got it.

And as you say, you know, a shot
of adrenaline, a shot of cortisol

to make you act, not think,
get yourself out of trouble.

Sometimes that could even be fun if you
enjoy a dangerous sport or something like

that, but you don't want to live there.

Why, apart from the unraveling of
telomeres, And I also know that

cortisol, the stress hormone, is
a neurotoxin, so that obviously is

toxic for the body over too much time.

What else does stress do over time?

You mentioned this word,
friction, early on.

Is it tied to that?

Is stress tied to friction in the body?

And is friction tied to this
nervous system response?

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so this is where,
this is I spent a lot of years trying

to figure this out because we didn't
have the information we have today.

It's actually really funny to me to see
how much body mind information is around

right now, because for years and years,
I was like, I think there's something

going on with the body talking to the
mind and people thought it was crazy.

They were, they just like,
they could not get there.

And now it's, we take it for
granted, I think by and large

there's a collective understanding.

And so when you ask about like.

Stress and friction.

1 of so our bodies are not these just
machines that carry our brains around.

They are expressing our
state of being all the time.

But they are also communicating
inwardly to our brain.

So the state of your body tells your brain
something about what's going on for you.

It tells you, it tells
your it tells your brain.

I'm safe.

I'm not safe.

At its essence.

I'm either safe or I'm not safe.

And that's

Rupert Isaacson: what the brain needs to
know moment to moment as a bottom line.

Sukie Baxter: Correct.

And that's how it determines
your nervous system state.

We don't choose our nervous system states.

Our brain, it's in a non conscious
process, assesses a whole bunch of data

that it's getting beneath our awareness.

And it then measures that
with your past experience.

Past experiences and any conditioning
you may have and kind of, you get

this, like, I think of it like a little
computer printout, like, not safe, you

know, so, and then there's like, someone
pushes the panic button and that's your

sympathetic nervous system or safe.

And someone's like, okay, we
can go into rest and digest.

Let's get a good night's sleep
at a very, very basic level.

It's, it's more complex than that,
but, but I just want to say, go ahead.

So on the, on the question of like tension
and stress and friction, if your body is

tense, which is what happens when you're
in sympathetic, then you're sort of in

this like feedback loop where the tension
in your body creates a lot of friction.

You're having to use a lot more
energy to literally move your body.

Right?

So, like, lifting your arm, you're
actually pulling against yourself.

You're actually, you're literally
holding yourself back by having these

tight muscles that create a joint that
doesn't move in a free way, so you

have to use more, you have to, you
have to actually burn more calories

in essence to move that arm because
you're pulling against resistance,

which is your own internal resistance.

Rupert Isaacson: And presumably put
more stress on the joints as well.

the tendons and sinews to, yeah,

Sukie Baxter: potentially, absolutely.

And, and what I noticed in working with
people is that we just tend to move

in these very limited patterns, right?

So we only move in ways that we
habitually move in, which is because

of the kind of environment we
live in, usually fairly limited.

So we get these very narrow pathways
and anything outside that pathway

becomes almost inaccessible,
sometimes completely inaccessible.

And then that limits the amount of sensory
information that's sent to our brain and

the sensory information that is sent to
our brain is one of tension and stress,

which then creates more tension and
stress, which then sends more information

about tension and stress, right?

So it's, you're, you're getting
this kind of loop, not safe

you know, not safe information.

Your brain's like, I'm not safe.

Let's be tense.

We got to be prepared for,
to deal with this threat.

Okay.

But now we're getting more not safe
information and it's just this cycle.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

So if I come to you with
my tense shoulders but I'm.

In a state of tension internally because
I'm afraid of my neighbors because

I'm reading a lot of negative social
media stuff because I'm, I've been

brought up in a, in a conflicty sort
of a culture, household, blah, blah.

And this has all been going on for so many
years and I don't even know any different

because I've just been raised that way.

And I come to you and I say, Hey Suki
can you work on my shoulder please?

And.

You start massaging me
and that stays tense.

And then you put your elbow
on me and it stays tense.

And then you and then I get up at the
end of the thing and I'm still tense.

Is is that the sort of experience of
a client like that where you're going?

Okay, look, something
internally now needs to change.

We need to understand what
this stress response is.

How do we, how do we guide
this person internally?

To release that stress in
a way that's not external.

No amount of, as you said, no amount
of me backing my truck repeatedly over

that guy's shoulder is going to release
that shoulder, even though that's

exactly what I'd be asking you to do.

And then you have to charge me
for wear and tear on the truck.

I can see how you would come
to need to do this research.

When you then began to tell people
in your practice about this, did

you find that it made sense to them?

Did you find that sometimes even perhaps
hearing about this and understanding this

mechanism within their own bodies, did
you find that it helped them to release

their stress without you necessarily
having to manipulate physically?

What was going on?

Or at least, did you find that if
you did manipulate physically once

you gave them this information, they
could release more meaningfully?

To an extent.

Sukie Baxter: I ultimately have moved away
from doing hands on work because there

is just so much that needs to happen.

Like, you just described so well
internally for a person in terms of

them understanding their own physical
body responses, life circumstances.

And this is, it can be
very complex, right?

It's not, it's not a simple thing.

There's a lot of circles of influence here
that that combined to affect a person's,

State internal state and not all of them
are the fault of that person, right?

We live within these systems as well.

So there's there's personal stuff.

There's cultural stuff.

Anyway so I I moved away from doing the
the hands on work because I found that

the context of a bodywork session is
So it's so entrenched in people's heads

that i'm going to go in and basically
deposit my body In the office of this

person, my brain can go on vacation
for a little while, thinking about

whatever and this person will fix me
and it, it works to, to an extent.

the people who are available for
it, for whatever reason, this is,

this is not a judgment, right?

It's because I, I do hear people say like,
Oh, well, they just weren't ready for it.

You know, and it's in sort of a
judgmental way of like, Oh, this

person is more evolved and more ready.

That's not it at all.

For whatever reason, a person
is in the, in the state to be

able to receive it and actually
integrate that work and take it on.

That's great.

Other people aren't for whatever reason
due to no fault of their own most likely.

And And when people would come in,
there was so much backing up I had

to do to explain that your body and
your brain are this integrated system.

And that it's not just a muscle.

It's this, this muscle that's
tight in your shoulder is not just

a rubber band that is too short.

That needs to be pulled longer.

Like, there's a whole culture in that
muscle, as you just described, right?

There's a whole belief
system in your body.

And there's a whole lifetime and
actually multiple lifetimes because we,

we take on a lot of these things from
other generations, both from a genetic

standpoint, but also from a just a
mirroring and a learning standpoint.

So there's, there's whole belief systems
living in your body and my elbow in

your shoulder may help if you're at
that state where you're able to release

this tension and integrate that.

But if you are not.

Then we could be here all day.

It's, you know, you're, and
you, most people do feel

better at the end of a session.

It's whether or not that work stays.

Yeah.

So my, my goal wasn't to have people come
in every week for the rest of their lives.

My goal was to actually help people
get to where they want it to go.

And I saw that for some people, the
body work was the missing piece, but

by and large, there was so much more
education that needed to happen.

And so I really transitioned into teaching
this information and, and, and helpful

tools to people so that they could start
to integrate this in a different way.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so now there you
are, your livelihood is putting hands

on people, so you actually rely on these
people to come trooping into your studio

so that you can pay rent and so on.

And then you start thinking, oh
gosh, you know, I've got to really

tackle this in a different way.

You go off and learn
about the nervous system.

And then there you are on YouTube
with like 6 million, 5 million,

4 million people looking at us.

Was it that sudden?

Dot, dot, dot?

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it was one
of those overnight successes

that took 20 years to get there.

Oh good, I'm glad we can stop

Rupert Isaacson: the podcast right here.

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it actually, that
was a long journey because I, I was

trying to teach this stuff forever.

I've been trying to teach
this stuff since like 2000.

I mean, honestly, since the day I started
my practice and I started figuring this

out, I was trying to find the words.

I was so very new and also so very young.

I really didn't know how to,
you know, how to convey this.

It took a while to figure out
what I Was even trying to say.

So there was that journey of just
getting proficient at what I was doing

and having enough experience with
putting my hands on people to be like,

I think there's some patterns here.

But then there was the experience
of trying to explain what it was.

I even did with people.

So there was that segment
of my journey, which as.

As you've probably noticed in this
podcast, it's not easy to quantify

what, because a lot of this stuff
is just not, it doesn't fit in the

boxes we already have for body work
and psychology and all of that.

I was like, no, they're the same thing.

You know, actually a body worker
is a mental health practitioner.

People were like, no, I have no
idea what you're talking about.

So there was that journey of kind of
figuring out how to even talk about this.

And then there was the journey
of, Trying to share this, as you

said, this was my livelihood.

And so, you know, I would work with
mentors and business mentors and people

who were kind of helping me to get, you
know, get the word out and talk to people.

And how do I, how do I communicate this?

And I had a lot of setbacks.

I, I had a mentor who really
said something very hurtful.

Where I was trying to talk about,
you know, the connection between

pain and stress and the mind and
the psychology and the culture

and all of these different things.

And I was pretty far into my nervous
system journey at this point.

And I was pretty sure that I was
on to something, but I also didn't

know of anyone else who was really
talking about it at that time.

So it was, it was, I felt like I was
bumping into a wall a lot when I talk

about it and this mentor said, well, I
don't even know why a physical therapist

is talking to me about my emotions.

Why don't you just stick to
telling people what height to

set their computer monitor at?

And I was so just distraught.

And I just felt so much despair
at that because for one that.

It's just so it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

If setting our computer
monitors at the right height

was the solution, we'd be fine.

We wouldn't need this work,
you know, because I think

that information is out there.

I think we can find that at this point.

It's accessible.

And what I wanted to do was so much
more in my, you know, in my opinion,

much more profound than that, which
was really get to the core of people

and really help them to live more
self actualized lives not just.

To eradicate the pain that they were
feeling so they could go on living

lives that they didn't really enjoy
living in unhealthy ways, which is

kind of what a lot of pain relief type.

Practices do is like allows

Rupert Isaacson: you to keep going
with what's still hurting you.

Sukie Baxter: Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah It's it's basically it puts you on
this spectrum of of pain to like numbness

where it's like we don't we don't then
replace the pain with joy or fulfillment

or Desire or anything pleasant.

Rupert Isaacson: We're just or
even a way of of moving away

from that pain towards something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah Healing.

Yeah.

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so
so I was very distraught.

I struggled for a long time I tried
very hard to talk about posture

in a very Posture y sort of way.

And it Really didn't work.

I, I wrote a book, a
little ebook that I have.

And I found myself like, I'm going
to write this book about posture.

And as I'm writing this book, I kept
coming back to the nervous system

and I was like, I can't do it.

It's like, it's physically impossible.

I can't talk about how to sit in a chair
without talking about your nervous system.

And so I, I had started putting things
out on YouTube and I was kind of like

dabbling in it here and there and when did

Rupert Isaacson: you start
messing around with YouTube?

Sukie Baxter: So I actually put a couple
videos out, like, way, way back in 2009

and then I abandoned it for a very long
time, like, a decade, and then I was like,

maybe I'll go back to that YouTube thing
maybe around 2018, I want to say, ish,

and kind of was dabbling in it and then.

I just sort of started to decide that
I wanted to experiment a little bit.

So I was like, I'm going to put out videos
that are more on the nervous system side.

I just, I need to get this out.

I'm having these conversations one on
one, like these conversations would

come up with my body work clients.

They would come up.

While I was working on horses and I
was talking to the owner about nervous

systems and why I didn't need to pound
on their horse to get actual change, why

their horses movement would change with
what looked like me, just kind of gently

touching their, you know, their animal.

And they're like, well, how is this,
you know, how is this happening in

their horse's eyes or, you know,
doing that third eyelid blank and big

yawns and, you know, signs of release.

So these conversations were coming up over
and over and I was like, I just want to,

I want to try having this conversation,
not on a quiet secret one to one level.

But like, let's just try
putting it out there more

widely and it was an experiment.

And I found that there actually was
quite a lot of interest in that material.

So, to my surprise, it was exactly what
everyone told me not to talk about.

Don't talk about the connection
between the body and trauma and.

anxiety and mental health and
your physical self and all of

these things that are connected.

Don't do that.

No one's going to understand it.

And it was when I did that exact thing
that everyone told me not to do, that

it actually connected with people.

Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting
how many people on this podcast

say something similar to that.

It was when I did what everyone said
not to do that things began to move.

I, I know that's been true in my life.

When I was going to go across
Mongolia with my kid and everyone

said he was completely nuts.

And it's just in my gut, it's like,
no, no, it's, it's the right thing,

but I totally understand why you think
it's nuts, because on the face of it,

it is a bit nuts, but life is nuts.

So, you know, I, that, that bold step it
seems that perhaps your own sympathetic

nervous system had gotten to a point
where you were feeling maybe that you

had Your foot on the brake and the
accelerator at the same time just like

these clients who were in distress with
you were and Do you think it's true

that you felt in some way even if that
was instinctive and unconscious that?

Until you sorted that out in yourself.

You couldn't really help them in
the way that you would like to And

then that happened on a public forum
Do you think that that was also

part of what was motivating you?

A sort of feeling of, well,
physician heal thyself sort of thing.

If I can't, how can I tell
these people how to set

themselves free from the inside?

If I myself, I'm sort of
feeling frustrated like this.

Sukie Baxter: Yeah.

If I'm not letting myself be
who I am, then how can I tell

other people how to do that?

So, yeah, you know, there's a
really great saying, and I don't

know who originally said it.

I'm sure it wasn't the
person I heard it from.

But it's don't talk about it, be about it.

And I, I really, I find it That was God,

Rupert Isaacson: wasn't that God?

Didn't God say that?

I have no idea,

Sukie Baxter: possibly.

But I think that I had to be,
you know, be that example.

I had to go out and do the thing and
it was, it was really terrifying.

I, you know, I get a calm, I
get lots of comments on YouTube

because YouTube is YouTube.

Many, many, many, many
wonderful positive comments.

And I love those.

But of course, as many people
do, I see the negative ones and

they hit me more intensely than.

The positive ones.

Rupert Isaacson: The old
sympathetic nervous system reaction.

Sukie Baxter: Looking for those threats.

And one of the comments that I get that
does make me laugh is people say, well,

she really likes to hear herself talk.

And I just, I always chuckle to
myself because the reality is I hate

watching those videos of myself.

I don't actually love being
the center of attention.

I don't love a big crowd around me.

I'm kind of a, like not a hermit,
but I'm, I'm an introvert.

I, you know, I, I'm not
somebody to go in and.

You know, take over a party or something.

And so it was hard to get out there
and start talking about this stuff,

especially at a time where it really
wasn't like, so this is about 4 years ago.

Now that I really started
talking about this.

I've been talking about it for like, 10
years or more, but that I really kind of

was like, okay, I'm going to do the thing.

It was about four years ago and
things have dramatically changed.

There's so much more content out there.

That's really similar in tone and, you
know, and in material, like where we're

talking about how the body and the
mind are interconnected and related.

But at that time, no one
was really talking about it.

And I didn't know if everyone
was going to tell me I was crazy.

I mean, I could have made those YouTube
videos and we could be sitting here and

like three people could have watched them.

I have no idea.

Rupert Isaacson: Were you surprised
by how many people flocked to them?

And why do you think they did?

Sukie Baxter: Well, I think
it's a combination of things.

I think one, the timing was right because
it was in the middle of the pandemic.

So we were all very stressed and
people were looking for help and

we didn't have a lot of resources
because we couldn't go to our, you

know, I mean, you could get therapy.

From zoom, but you couldn't
go to your therapist.

You couldn't go to your
massage therapist by and large.

There was a lot of, you know,
things were shut down or very

limited staffing was very low.

Everyone was, you know, freaking out.

It was a huge pattern interrupt.

You know, our whole lives
got turned upside down.

And I was no exception to that, but so,
so people were looking for resources.

So that was 1 thing, but you, you
mentioned, I think, at the beginning

that your content can be good.

And then people don't see it, right?

So you can have really great
videos and there are people who

have really great videos out
there, but no one's watched them.

And the reasoning is that there are
ways to figure out what people are

looking for and position your video
so that it's the thing that they

find when they're looking for it.

And I was able to, to do that.

And I, Thanks.

You know, I, I did it strategically
and I was fortunate in that.

I happened to land on some
things that people were actually

looking for at that time.

So it, it kind of

Rupert Isaacson: blew up.

So you say you did it strategically.

Did you do it strategically
from the get go?

Like, did you sit there
I looked at a wiki of Mr.

Beast the other day and
if you don't know who Mr.

Beast is these days, I mean,
you're probably, like, one of three

on the planet, but nonetheless,
if you don't know who Mr.

Beast is, he's this incredibly successful
YouTuber who has made billions and

given a lot of it away, actually.

Planted lots of trees and things.

And I remember him reading this thing
where he said, I sat for five years in a

room eating Uber Eats, only figuring out,
learning how to make videos go viral.

I became obsessed with it in an
unhealthy way, but it sort of paid off.

That's what he said.

Did you do something like that?

Or did you just start putting stuff
out there that you were interested

in and thought other people should
mention or was it something in between?

Sukie Baxter: It was a
little bit in between.

I had a strategy of I'm going
to, I'm going to put different

things out and see what hits.

So I would make videos on different
topics because I didn't know what

people were gravitating towards.

So, I would do some research
and there, there are ways.

So there are tools.

If I think people don't know that
these things exist, there are tools.

That will tell you what people
are searching for on Google and

YouTube is a Google product.

So there are tools to, to become
aware of, like, how many people are

looking for a term on, you know, on
social media or on Google and that

tells you what the interest level is.

And then there are.

People who figured out
ways to name your video.

Well, so basically there's, there's lots
of elements, but like the title is one of

them and there's other elements as well to
position your video in a way that YouTube

knows Hey, when someone's searching for
this thing, this video is kind of like,

I can, I can do the matchmaker here.

Like I can, I can give them.

This video content, because
that's what they're looking for.

Now, if your video is terrible or like
you spend, you know, five minutes of

rambling on maybe the last part of
your video is great, but five minutes

at the beginning, are you rambling
on about something irrelevant?

People aren't going to watch it.

And YouTube's going to be
like, ah, that didn't work.

Let's try it.

Let's serve them up a different video.

Right?

So there there's lots of elements here.

But there are ways to be strategic
about when you make your video, making

sure that you're actually creating a
resource that people are looking for.

So I, I was looking to balance
that when I would do my research.

I was like, okay, I have
something I want to share.

How does it match with what
people are looking for?

What's the Venn diagram here?

And you

Rupert Isaacson: did that from the get go.

You, you, you thought, I actually want
this to go out as wide as possible.

I'm going to research how to make
a video go out as wide as possible

on YouTube before I make it.

Sukie Baxter: Not exactly.

I didn't really want it to
go out as wide as possible.

I wanted people to see it.

I wanted to know, you know, I thought,
I thought a few hundred people, maybe

a few thousand people would watch it.

I didn't think, you know,
5 million people would

Rupert Isaacson: watch a video.

Why do you think 5
million people did watch

Sukie Baxter: it?

Because it was the thing they were
looking for and because they watched

because of the way so I I actually
worked with mentors like so when

I want to learn something, I find
a mentor and I learn it from them.

And this is true in every area of my life.

I go find somebody and learn.

I'm like way past the point.

Well, I still read books, but I'm way past
the point of self study at this point.

I want to learn something.

I'm like, you seem to
know what you're doing.

Teach me.

So I found people who are
really good at YouTube.

And they taught me us.

How did you find them?

They use, how did you find them?

They, they were a referral from somebody
else that I knew, from somebody else.

Like I So you

Rupert Isaacson: did, you know some people
who, who had been successful on YouTube

and say, who do you, who would I talk

Sukie Baxter: to?

They, they were, they are successful.

The people that I followed,
I liked their ethos.

I, I like them as people, there's lots of

Rupert Isaacson: people that you were, you
were subscribing to their YouTube channel.

Sukie Baxter: Actually I wasn't.

They were, I was referred to them, so
I had not subscribed to their channel.

I was referred to them by a, it was
somebody in another community of creators

and business people that they were
like, this is, it was somebody else.

In that community had done YouTube had
taught YouTube previously and doesn't

anymore and they were like, this is the
person I send people to now and I went

Rupert Isaacson: online or this was
someone you knew in your up there in the

Pacific Northwest where you live where

Sukie Baxter: people go online.

Okay, it's all online.

Yeah, it's an online community.

Okay,

Rupert Isaacson: so you joined
an online community of people

interested in creating videos around.

the subjects that you were interested in
or was it some different online community?

Sukie Baxter: It was a
different online community.

It was a more of like a business
online community where people

who have who have businesses get
together and share resources and

information and help each other out
with, you know, I need to do this.

I need to do X, Y, Z thing.

What tools do I use or who
knows somebody I can hire to

do this, that kind of a thing.

Is that still exist?

Rupert Isaacson: Oh, yeah.

What's it?

What's it called?

Sukie Baxter: It's somebody's private
community, so I wouldn't necessarily share

it, but I've been a member of many, many,
many, I've always, but you must've found

Rupert Isaacson: your
way there somehow, right?

So how did you, if someone's listening
and going, well, gosh, I would like

to become, you know, part of a mentor
community like that, a mentoring community

like that, what would be the steps that
they would need to take in order to

find their way to something like that?

Sukie Baxter: That's a,
that's a really good question.

And the reason I'm so hesitant
to say more is because the online

community, the online business
coaching and mentoring community is

it's a bit of a minefield to navigate.

There's a lot of really manipulative
practices that happen in that space.

There's a lot of people
calling that out right now too.

So there's some really good conversations.

But like you, you can, on the internet,
you can find a business coach and like.

So, so they're, they're out there.

It's just that,

Rupert Isaacson: so what's the, well,
let's, let's stick around on this topic.

Cause it's, I think
it's useful for people.

There'll be people driving their
cars right now that want to do this.

And, but don't know how if you were
to, what, what, what would be the.

Way to know if it's a good business
coach, what would be your test questions?

For example, i'll give you people often
ask me about two things that they'll say

to me because you know, I teach dressage
with Horses and so people will say how do

I know if it's a good dressage teacher and
i'll say well There's two test questions.

How do you teach your horse?

The language is important piaf, which is
a particular movement that's important in

that thing, and they must be able to tell
you in a more or less understandable way.

And can I ride him?

Meaning, can I sit on him?

Have you got a horse that can show me?

And if the answer is something vague and
no, you need to keep going until you find

someone who says, Oh, I did it like this.

And yes, you can.

He's over here.

Similarly, people know my background
with, you know, shamans and healing.

And they say, well, how do
you, how do you find your way?

Not, you know, how do you not get
Involved with the charlatan and I'll say,

well, usually the really good shamans
are in very remote areas of the world.

And they're so busy
healing their communities.

You, you wouldn't necessarily,
you wouldn't find them online.

But what I often do if I'm going to
a place where there's places, parts

of the world where I just know the
people because I was partly brought

up there and partly because of my
work with journalism and human rights.

And then I might.

Actually give someone a contact but
let's say I need to go to a part of

the world where I don't know anybody
I take a counterintuitive process.

I will often contact a Listen up guys if
you're looking for a shaman I will often

contact a hospital or a clinic in a remote
tribal area Like let's say I wanted to

go up to alaska and find a healer I would
look for a hospital in a native american

reservation up there and I would contact
The administrator and I would say by email

and I'd send an email saying have you
got a funny old guy or a funny old lady

who comes on the wards from the local
community and does odd things and the

people just seem to sort of get better.

And frequently I'll get a
response from the hospital

administrator saying actually yes.

I mean sometimes they won't
come back to me at all.

Sometimes they'll tell me to bugger off
but sometimes they'll say actually yes.

And then I'll say, oh, and then
we'll begin a conversation and I'll

find my way to something that way,
but there's a sort of step by step

onion peeling back thing happening.

So if someone is wanting to find
their way through that minefield that

you're talking about what do you think
would be some sound steps for them to

follow and questions for them to ask?

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, I don't think it's
a straight at least I haven't figured

out is a straight ahead way for them
to figure it out as clear as that.

I think that it can be really
helpful to speak to their students.

I personally, if I'm looking at
someone, I will kind of stalk

their social media for a while.

I like to look at the testimonials on
their pages and then Google those people

and go and, and kind of investigate
like what those people are up to.

Mm-Hmm.

, in particular to find out like,
you know, are, are all of their

clients kind of the same , you know,
are they all doing the same thing?

Yeah.

And then one of the biggest things
is if you come across a business

coach who has a lot of clients
who are also business coaches.

And everyone's kind of teaching
people how to make money.

That's a big red flag.

Because there's sort of this weird,
it's not MLM, but it's MLM like.

It's a bit MLM y.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Where it's like somebody who wasn't,
wasn't very successful often.

Not always.

Sounds

Rupert Isaacson: like a midlife rapper.

Sorry.

Sukie Baxter: Somebody who wasn't maybe
that great at building their own, you

know, business then decides to teach other
people how to build their businesses.

But the only thing they really know
how to do is how to teach people how to

teach people how to build businesses.

So then their clients start to
teach people how to make money too.

And it just becomes like, everyone's
almost saying the same thing.

So if you, if you start looking
around somebody's, you know,

business and at their clients, and
it seems like a big echo chamber and

everyone's kind of saying the same.

thing in that regard, then
that's, it's not necessarily a

solid no, but it's a red flag.

And then for me, I am at this point
in my work, really intentional about

choosing people who acknowledge
the systems in which we live.

So I will not work with people who
have this sort of ethos of like,

if you just change your thoughts,
the whole, you know, like all of

your problems are in your thoughts.

Because that's just simply not true.

We, you know, there are
limitations and, and situations

that people find themselves in.

There's, there's all kinds of
things that happen to people.

There's all kinds of different
circumstances that people find themselves

in that mean that their resources and
ability to do something are important.

You know, different than somebody else's.

So if someone just has this
sort of like, well, if you have

problems, it's all in your thoughts
and you just need to journal.

It's not for me at this point.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

So, you through these researchers,
you found your way to some mentors.

What if you were mentoring the
listeners now, what is the way that

you create a title for your YouTube
video that will position it, as

you said, in a way that people have
a sporting chance of finding it.

Sukie Baxter: So there is something
called search engine optimization.

It's been around for a long time.

It's not new.

It's been around since
Google has been around.

Basically it is figuring out what
people are searching for on Google.

It's people don't lie to Google, right?

So they type their actual
questions into the search bar.

And the funny thing is that a lot of
people have the exact same question

and they type it in the same way.

Okay, and so there are tools that that you
can use, as I mentioned to know how many

people are searching for these things.

So the 1st thing that I
do is I try to figure out.

I might have an idea, a
general concept for a video.

Okay, so I'm going to take that
general concept and I'm going to go

look at Google to see what are the
questions that people are actually

asking about this, and then I will
use that information to craft a title.

There's no guarantee.

Right.

We none of us actually knows what
the algorithm is that YouTube uses.

So you might have what seems like a
bang up title and it doesn't get picked

up or sometimes it doesn't get picked
up for three months or six months.

And then all of a sudden it just.

That's where it starts.

And then, then from there, once you've
got your title, you want to take

into account the related questions
that people are asking about that

and make sure you incorporate that
into the actual body of the video.

So the things you're saying, So, some of
my videos, I literally write them out.

a script word for word and say them
because I can't necessarily think

when a camera is pointed at me so it's
helpful for me to just have it there.

Sometimes I will do bullet points
and I will, I will present that way.

But in all, whether I do bullet points
or script it word for word, I'm making

sure that the way that I've structured
the outline of this video is to answer

the kinds of questions that people have.

And that doesn't mean That I won't say
something like, well, people ask this

question and actually I want to say, I
want to tell you why that question is

not helpful, or I want to tell you why we
need to be asking a different question,

because if you understand this, then
it changes the way you understand the

whole challenge or something like that.

But I want to address the fact that
people have that question so that

they're, they're getting their,
they're getting the resource they need.

Rupert Isaacson: What is the tool?

What are, what are these search engine
optimization tools that people can access?

Sukie Baxter: The two that I use are key.

Is it keywords anywhere
or keywords everywhere?

I think it's keywords everywhere.

Let me make sure.

Keywords everywhere.

Keywords everywhere.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Okay.

Keywords everywhere.

It's a plugin.

I believe it only works on Chrome.

And the other one that I
use is called Tube Buddy.

They're both very affordable tools.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Why those two?

I'm, I'm sure there's
other tools out there.

What is it about those two that
works better than the others

Sukie Baxter: that you found?

Well, Keywords Everywhere tells
you, it gives you psychic abilities.

It tells you how many people
are searching for something.

You can use it on YouTube.

You can use it on Google.

It does cost it does cost a little bit
of money to, you know, every time you

do a search, it'll give you these little
numbers next to your search term that tell

you how many people are searching for it.

And every time you do that, it
costs you a little bit of money, but

it's, it's so, I mean, I think it
was like, I don't know, 20 bucks.

And I've been using it for
like a year or something.

It's not, I don't remember exactly,
but it's really affordable.

But I, I turn it off when I'm not using it
just so I'm not running down my credits.

And then TubeBuddy, I don't use as much.

I use keywords everywhere more.

TubeBuddy has a bunch of tools that
you can use that will allow you to

see comparisons with other channels.

So if you have somebody who's
like got a similar channel, you

can see like how their videos
are performing compared to yours.

It gives you some.

Weighted search predictions.

So like when you're popping a
title into youtube, like maybe i'm

going to consider this title It'll
kind of tell you for your channel.

We think this is a really good one
It gives you data like how many

other videos are in that search?

So you kind of know what your
competition is So it just it gives

these two tools Between the two you
get enough data to be able to make

an educated guess about a solid title

Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
this is really useful.

So, okay, so you are Putting out this
content through the pandemic about the

nervous system and stress and what people
can do, what, apart from understanding

They're vagal reactions to things.

How, what, what tools are you giving
them in these videos that you're

putting out back then that are like
the 1, 2, 3 steps that people can take?

And it, if you are someone, again
listening to this podcast right

now, you're driving, you're feeling
stressed, you've got adrenaline and

cortisol waring around in you, you
feel your sympathetic nervous system

even is not being sympathetic to you.

, I dunno why it's called sympathetic when
it seems to behave so unsympathetically.

But there you go.

What's your 1 2 3 that any of us
should do to begin to bring our

nervous systems back into a sort of a
coherent state when we're all jangled?

What's, what do we,
what do we need to know?

Yeah.

Sukie Baxter: Well, the information
in the YouTube videos is a lot of

education because as I mentioned, a
lot of times people are just asking

through no fault of their own, but
people are asking the wrong questions

simply because of the way that we've
been taught to conceptualize ourselves

as like this sort of disembodied brain
that, that is, you know, this is where

we live is like in our brain over here.

What's the wrong

Rupert Isaacson: question?

Yeah.

What's an example of a wrong
question that I might ask?

Sukie Baxter: What's the best
way to stretch my hamstrings?

Okay.

Right.

Because How many people stretch their
hamstrings every day and get marginal

or no, you know, maybe you get some,
some benefits to an extent, but then

you hit this wall and that they,
you know, you never get beyond that.

Right.

So, so then the education has to
happen around understanding that.

It's not that your hamstring muscles
are physically too short, it's that

your brain is literally sending a signal
to your hamstrings to contract them to

protect you from going into a range of
motion where you don't have control.

Why is it sending that signal?

Well, that's the million dollar question.

Could be a simple physical issue that
you don't have enough strength and

mobility, or it could be that you have
a trauma response in your body that

you've been living in sympathetic,
so you're gripping and protecting.

I mean, there's so many different things.

Why are you living in sympathetic?

And this, this is what got me
out of body work because I was

like, this is, it's a rabbit hole.

You know, I would say.

This is not

Rupert Isaacson: a conversation.

Yeah, but that actually was a very nice
one, two, three that you just said.

So you got, okay, why
are my hamstrings tight?

Because I've been
stretching them every day.

Is it because my body thinks
I'm not safe if I do that?

If it thinks I'm not safe and,
and contracts when I do that,

why does it think I'm not safe?

Well, that is a very good one, two, three.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Why?

Why does my body think
it's unsafe when I do that?

Yeah.

And surely just giving.

Attention to that question is going
to set me on a road towards asking

my brain, well, is it possible
that I might be safe in that?

And then might my brain then begin to
say, alright, well I'll let you stretch

a little way to find out Mm-Hmm, . So it
would is posing the, is it, it is funny.

Is it, is it like the algorithm
of your brain is posing the

right question to your brain?

One of the.

Like keywords everywhere.

Is it one of the secrets of
unlocking the nervous system?

Which is interesting because
that does bring one back to

the thoughts create things.

Or changing your thoughts, but it's, but
in ways that are thoughtful, I suppose.

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well, thoughts
are sensory information, right?

So like, I think, I think we need
to, we need to downgrade thoughts

from like this exalted thing up here.

That's like, we've got thoughts and
then we've got all this sensory info.

They're just part of it.

Right.

So it's not that having a positive
mindset isn't helpful, right?

Like if you're walking around telling
yourself horrible things all the time

and beating yourself up in your head.

Yeah.

That is bad.

Which a

Rupert Isaacson: lot
of us are, by the way.

Sukie Baxter: Yeah.

Right.

But also.

Oftentimes we will try to change our
thoughts and and struggle with that

because our bodies are in this sympathetic
state and we feel unsafe and the brain

Rupert Isaacson: calls bullshit
on us and says, no, I'm going

to keep that relationship.

Right.

Sukie Baxter: Right.

Exactly.

And so if you change that state
through these other sensory processes,

it then unlocks the ability.

I mean, this is.

This sounds very similar to when I
hear you talk about the unlocking the

learning centers and autism, right?

It's like when we change the state
of the body, it sort of opens up the

mind to be receptive to new thoughts.

Right?

So it's, it's not that
that piece is wrong or bad.

It's just that you can't sit,
you can't suppress negativity.

You can't sit around being
like, I'm not anxious.

Everything's fine.

You know, I am happy and well,
and everything is perfect.

And then your body's like, no,
like, a lion basically has its

teeth around your shoulder,
like, we're gonna die any moment.

You know what I mean?

It's, it's conflicting.

And then even that conflict, I think,
makes us feel even less safe, because

your, your thoughts are telling
you one thing, you're biased, and

then you're another, your brain's
like, I don't know what the truth

is, but this does not feel okay to

Rupert Isaacson: me.

Right.

Okay.

So, you've got to pose a question
as to why your brain is saying

that something is unsafe.

When?

All evidence suggests that, say,
bending down to pick something up off

the floor, hence the hamstring stretch.

is actually okay.

There is no elephant charging at
you currently while you do it.

So if I can tell my, ask my brain,
why am I having this response?

Do you think that there's a value?

Do you think the nervous system responds
to when we begin to pose questions to it?

Because let's just, let's also
assume that the brain is an extension

of the nervous system, right?

It's receiving information
from the nervous system.

So it's connected.

Is posing that question going to
automatically set the nervous system

going along some more functional pathways,

Sukie Baxter: perhaps?

I think it can.

I think it's the start.

I think it opens the door.

Okay.

Right.

So now if we understand that
this is a safety issue and

not a tight rubber band issue.

It, it completely transforms
the way we then approach it.

Now we can be curious.

Right.

And I'm

Rupert Isaacson: acknowledging
that I am feeling this, right?

I'm not denying that I'm feeling this.

Yeah.

Sukie Baxter: Okay.

Yeah.

No, no, absolutely.

And that's, that's a really important
thing is that like when people are feeling

tightness or pain, sometimes they get,
you know, especially when you go and

you get medically evaluated and they
take all these images and they're like,

well, we can't find any reason for this.

You must be cracking up.

And they don't usually say it like
that, but that's the, the impact

of what they say is like, well,
you should go see a psychologist.

Cause we can't find anything wrong.

And I've had many a client come to
me and be like, like kind of secretly

thinking maybe they're going crazy
because there's no reason for this pain.

So maybe it's not real
and they're making it up.

No, it's absolutely real.

Your anxiety is absolutely real.

Even if there's no reason for it.

What you are experiencing
is completely real.

But like, like you said, you
know, I'm gonna ask, okay, so

why am I experiencing this?

What is the lack of safety about it?

Whether it's anxiety, which
is just, I don't feel safe.

I think something bad is going
to happen in the next moment.

That's what the brain is saying, that
you may not consciously think that,

but non-consciously your brain's like,
I feel like I may die at any moment.

Mm-Hmm, , or a hamstring stretch,
or, you know, lifting your arm,

turning your, turning your head.

Then we can be curious.

It's about, you know, well,
well, what if we change the

Rupert Isaacson: context?

Well, that is, I think what I'm,
was feeling my way towards there.

Thank you for saying curious.

So when we're working, for example, with
learning receptors in the brain, with

what I do with autism and learning with,
with movement method, one of the things

that we know is that the, the curious
brain is actually the happy brain.

You, you can't learn in a state
of great distress, not really.

And, but when you're in your seeking,
hunting brain, you're like, Ooh,

I don't know what's over there.

You're curious brain.

It's an, it's an automatic happy state
and it's also a a learning state.

We're curious monkeys.

We like to learn.

So again, that thing about
posing questions, becoming

curious rather than resistant.

Like I've got this.

Pain, painful shoulder and I want it gone.

I want to resist this.

I want it gone.

I want it out I want to kill it.

I want to I want to slay that dragon
or Dragons are sort of interesting.

Is this a toothless or
is this a white crested?

Lesser spotted, you know Samoan
dragon And if so do I need to ride it

with a a large padded Samoan saddle?

Or will my Portuguese dragon saddle
that I've been using actually work?

Was it a bit too low on
the dragons withers in it?

But what, you know what I mean?

It's suddenly, it's getting
interested in the whole thing.

Actually, one of the keys.

When we're talking about our
body's response, because so

often we are completely mystified
because so much of this is going

on in our subconscious, right?

We don't know why, you know, on
the face of it, most of the people

that are coming into your office,
their lives are probably quite good.

Why are they so stressed?

Why are they in a state where their
nervous system is saying, I might die?

It's getting curious about it.

The first step to healing.

Sukie Baxter: I think so.

And I think that when we are curious,
there's a lot of richness that can

be discovered, but it's also not
necessarily, I become curious and

the solution arises immediately.

And now I understand.

Sure.

And oftentimes there are
many layers to this, right?

So there's the surface answers.

To the question, right?

Like, we can become curious
about a stuck shoulder or a tight

hamstring and change some physical
context and maybe have some shifts.

But on a more global level,
you know, there can be.

A challenging relationship.

There can be a challenging
life circumstance.

There could be past trauma or past
conditioning about what's acceptable.

I, I worked with many particularly
people who were raised, socialized

as women in the fifties.

And.

It's a very interesting thing when you
start working with them around tension

around their hips, that there's a lot
of conditioning around how, if you move

your hips, if you allow your hips to
move, then you were considered like,

you know, loose, or, you know, it was,
it was suggestive in a way that proper

girls did not, you know, should not do.

for the time period.

And so, so when you start to
become curious, you, you unlock

so much more of a person.

So that's not, it's never a simple answer.

It's, I should say, it's not
never a simple answer, but

it's rarely a simple answer.

There's rarely like a night and
day, you know, today, you're like

this tomorrow, you're like that.

And we move on.

Rupert Isaacson: Surely that's
the nature of curiosity is that

we want to go down rabbit holes.

I mean, that's, that's the
nature of humanity is we like

going down rabbit holes, right?

Going down rabbit holes
as long as they're not.

negative ones that panic us is actually
the great joys of life, isn't it?

You know, I mean, to go find out,
Oh, and I can go, Oh, and this

leads, Oh, and this leads to here.

When you, when you were
working on these ladies though,

that's an interesting thing.

And you identified the tightness
in the hips, or were they already

coming and complaining of this, or
they complaining about other things.

And then you realized through looking
at their nervous systems that it was in

the hips, how aware of it in the pelvis,

Sukie Baxter: were they?

It depends on the person.

So sometimes the complaint
is localized to the area.

So sometimes it was a like a hip issue.

Often it's a low back issue.

Okay.

You know, because the pelvis
if the pelvis is restricted.

Yeah, exactly.

And then the hip joints
are hugely influential.

Right on the low back.

So a lot of times with low
back pain, but not always.

I mean, again, everything is everything.

It's all connected, right?

So I'm looking at the
entirety of a person.

So regardless of what they come in
with, if I have them walk across my

office and you know, and, and this
is just true for people if I'm or

horses too, if I'm watching them walk,
what I'm looking for is essentially

what I call the rocks in the stream.

Like what's flowing in their movement.

What's not

Rupert Isaacson: flowing.

Is that your term?

Looking for the rocks in the stream.

I

Sukie Baxter: don't.

I think so.

I think that it has, I've heard it from
various sources and I don't remember

where I was first exposed to it, but
it is, it is how I conceptualize it.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: And then when you
say, okay, I think it's in the hips.

At what point do you find yourself in
a conversation with them about that

1950s good girl conditioning and then
strategies about letting that perhaps go?

How?

Do you find that when you begin to
look at it that way, and talk about it

that way, that there's a kind of a yes?

That's it response or do you get denial

Sukie Baxter: it really
depends on the person.

So sometimes you never have
the conversation, right?

So we don't necessarily have to
consciously know these things Sometimes

it's I think it's helpful because
our brains want to have explanations

for things So for most people having
some sort of story and there's some

sort of cognitive Understanding is
helpful, but you don't have to, you

can actually work on someone's body
and it can shift their internal state.

And then for example, I had
a client who one time said.

That they had a negative
memory of their father.

I don't know what the memory was.

They never shared it with
me, but that they had devoted

many a yoga practice to it.

Many a meditation to it, you know,
really worked on this like experience

and that after doing some body work
for whatever it was, that was the key

for them that like they could think
about this memory and it just didn't

have the charge that it used to have.

It just seemed to be not, and not
that the memory was gone, but that.

The, you know, they could remember
it, but they didn't feel the, whatever

it was, the, the unpleasantness.

They weren't locked in the same

Rupert Isaacson: response that
they were all those decades ago.

Sukie Baxter: And I had no idea.

I mean, this person never told me about
that memory before we, we worked together.

We didn't have a conversation about it.

It just was the piece that
helped it to dissipate.

But with other people, you know,
specifically if you talk about, you

know, women in the, from the 1950s
who was raised during that time.

Who received this kind of messaging, it
might be that as we work together and

their hips are moving more, maybe she's,
you know, she's walking, she's feeling it.

She might be like, this
feels uncomfortable.

And then we have a conversation.

Why is it uncomfortable?

Unfamiliar?

Is it uncomfortable?

Painful?

You know what, what, tell me more
about this discomfort that you feel.

And sometimes it comes up, like,
I just feel like I shouldn't.

Do this or I just something about
this feels wrong or vulnerable, then

we might have that conversation.

Okay.

Well, well, you know,
you're moving your hips.

What does that, what concepts
do you have around that?

Well, you know, I was always
taught you shouldn't do that.

Oh, okay.

Well, isn't, isn't that interesting?

And that may be the extent
of the conversation.

We don't need, need to have
an hour of psychology on that.

You know, isn't that interesting
that moving your hips

brings up this conditioning?

You know, and what's your experience of
that now and, and, you know, they, they

may take, they may take that with them
that day and they come back for the next

session and things may have changed.

We may have another conversation about it.

We may not.

Rupert Isaacson: So you gave up your
practice and to some degree your practice

is also taken away from you by COVID.

You started putting
these things on YouTube.

Was there a, an oh shit,
I can't pay my rent bit?

Yeah, there was.

Sukie Baxter: I, yeah, COVID was
simultaneously like the best thing

that ever happened to me and the
worst thing that ever happened to

me, which, you know, I think it was a
huge, just upset for so many people.

But in, in my case, I essentially
lost everything because overnight

I, a business that I built over
15 years was just gone, just gone.

Like literally, I didn't, I didn't
know that I went to work on a Thursday.

And I came home and I never went back.

That was it.

And, and when you build a
practice like that, it's no joke.

That's a lot of work.

There's a lot of talking
to people over time.

And I had a life, I have two
horses that were boarded.

I had a condo and I had an office
with you know, rent that I had to

pay and all of the associated things
that go along with life and a cat.

And, and so, yeah, I was, I
was, but nobody else could pay

anything either at that time.

So it was a little bit of a
blessing that I was like, I

mean, what are they going to do?

You know, like I it's COVID
my, this, I can't work.

So I just figured it out and I'll
be honest, like I could go back and

figure out how I figured it out, but
I don't know how I figured it out.

I just did.

Rupert Isaacson: Well, here's a question.

Did you, did you start immediately
helping people privately on zoom?

Sukie Baxter: I did a little bit of
that, but I was very quickly frustrated

because my clients essentially
wanted me to do body work on them.

And I, you can't, you know, there was
a huge educational gap and you just,

you can't do body work over zoom.

It's not the same.

And so what people were coming to me for,
like they, I have a lot to offer people

in terms of my knowledge and, you know,
all the research I've done, but what

people, what my clients really wanted was.

Yeah.

And I really couldn't
provide that to them.

So I did start helping people over zoom.

I did some somatic meditations
I just started kind of

flailing about, to be honest.

I was like, I don't know,
let's just help people.

Let's just do this.

Let's just do that.

Here I am.

I've got a smartphone, I've got
a computer, I've got internet.

I don't think anyone's going to kick
me out of my condo in the next month.

So, you know, let's just do something.

And I filmed a bunch of stuff at
home and I started putting together

some programs and honestly, it was.

It was kind of nice because
I had a lot of time to focus

because I wasn't going anywhere.

Rupert Isaacson: Do you think your,
your research and knowledge of the

nervous system and the brain by
then helped to stop you from going

into a panic and a negative spiral?

Do you think it helped you to?

Leverage the situation in a way.

I

Sukie Baxter: think it was
that, that old quote about

preparation, meeting opportunity.

Because yes, I think the
nervous system work helped.

I think the fact that I know how
to cook on a budget was helpful.

I was able to like reduce my food
bill quite a bit very quickly.

And and then I just got really
resourceful and I was like, okay,

I can't put my hands on people,
but I have all these other skills.

I don't know if any of them will provide
income for me, but they don't cost me

anything or they don't cost me much to do.

I have, you know, like what resources
do I already have that I can use?

Well, like I said, I have a
smartphone, so it has a camera.

I have internet.

I already I'd been doing a
little bit of YouTube because

I was so busy with my practice.

I wasn't as consistent as I had wanted
to be, but I already had some of

the things like I had a microphone.

I had, you know, I had
the things I needed.

I didn't have really great lights, but I
had a window, so, you know, I just kind

of was like, well, it's not perfect.

I don't have a professional studio, but.

I'm, I've got these things, so what
can I do right now with what I have?

And

Rupert Isaacson: at what point did
you get your first bit of money

from YouTube from these videos?

From, in the pandemic?

Sukie Baxter: I don't remember,
but it wasn't very soon.

I think it was like 2021.

Rupert Isaacson: So you started going for
it in 2019, and you were just like, well,

you know, I'll just put these out there.

Sukie Baxter: I think I was making a
little bit, but like a couple hundred

bucks, you know, we're not talking

Rupert Isaacson: livable wage.

Even that for most of us is like, damn,
I made 200 bucks off my YouTube video.

There must have been a sort of
a, shit, this is possible moment.

Even when you got those first
little bits of trickles.

Sukie Baxter: I think so.

I think that I, I mean, one of
the reasons I do what I do is I'm

prone to anxiety myself, right?

So I think my anxious brain is like,
well, I'm making somebody, but I don't

know if I can really live on this and
it's not really, you know, So, so I

don't know that I was like, you know,
popping champagne and celebrating,

but I was, you know, it's like, well,
thank God I have that, you know?

Rupert Isaacson: But given that most
people that put something on YouTube never

make a dime, I mean, that must have been
an interesting transitional life moment

of going, oh, I see this as possible.

Sukie Baxter: So I knew conceptually that
it was possible because I see other people

doing it, but I, I had a really hard
time believing it was possible for me.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

At what point did that get blown?

You said 20, 2021.

So two years in that gets
blown out of the water.

Sukie Baxter: Yeah.

Then I started making quite a
bit, but I don't, I don't rely

on YouTube and it's not reliable.

It's, it's very up and down.

Right.

Rupert Isaacson: So, what else were
you doing in that two year period

to keep body and soul together?

I sold my

Sukie Baxter: condo.

Got out of the city I moved my
horses to a lower cost of care

facility, was quite far away.

That was very hard for me.

And I started, so I had been teaching
online since like 2014 in terms of

having like digital programs that
people could buy with, you know.

Educational materials and coaching,

Rupert Isaacson: but already been
putting together courses online I

Sukie Baxter: had, but, but they were
like, I actually recently went back

and was looking at the content from
one of those and I was like, this

is not, it was, it was interesting.

It's not bad.

I was surprised because in my memory I was
really having a hard time again, building

that bridge from like, I'm trying to talk
to people about how their body influences

their mind, you know, put these programs
out there and I would have all this like

information around that for these people.

And then like, the feedback was
like, you know, but how do I stretch

my hamstrings kind of a thing?

It was, it was.

It was a little bit of a struggle for me.

I wasn't really, it wasn't connecting
in the way that I wanted it to connect

and it never was like, yeah, I mean,
it was a little money on the side.

It was not livable at all.

So my practice was my,
my bread and butter.

So I, but I had that foundation and then.

I started really talking to people as
these YouTube videos gained traction

and people were like, you get it.

Like that, that was what I kept hearing
was people would come to me and be

like, I've been trying to figure this
out for years and you've explained it

in such a way that it connects for me.

And I'm like, okay, thank
goodness we're finally connecting.

Like I'm, I'm finally understanding
what people want to hear.

They're getting the information they need.

This is good.

And as I talked to people I figured
out that they really needed some, some

Education and support in doing nervous
system work for themselves, not me

doing it on them, not me fixing them,
not me being the mechanic, but like,

let's empower them to do this work for
themselves, which is really the only

way it will be lasting and sustainable.

So I started teaching a course.

Online.

And again, I didn't, I didn't know how
it would work when I put it out there.

I was like, let's try it.

You know, I have, that was a live

Rupert Isaacson: course.

So that was film content that people
would go through step by step.

Sukie Baxter: It was live.

And then I converted it to
something that people could access

on their own time, because I.

Thought it was a little bit, it ended up
being, I'm, I'm an overdeliver general.

It's a lot for people.

To me, it seemed like this is very, very
reasonable for the amount of time we had.

For them, it was probably

Rupert Isaacson: worried that people
are going to think they're shortchanged.

Yeah,

Sukie Baxter: probably.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I converted it to something that was
more self paced and now I'm actually in

the process of converting it back to to
life because we find that that group.

community going through it
together is much more potent than

people doing it on their own.

But regardless of whether it
was live or self paced, like the

feedback has been really wonderful.

I've learned a ton working
with people I've had.

I mean, when I get to interact with
the people, the students who are

in my community and who are in my
programs, it's, it's amazing to me to

look back over that journey and just.

I'm so glad I was able to do that because
it really it is that piece that I was

kind of frustrated bumping up against
in my practice was that I wasn't able to

give people this foundational knowledge.

Once they have this, the things
that people are doing with it are

just, they're just really fantastic
because then, like you said, it opens

that door and they can be curious.

I, I just had amazing feedback
and I haven't asked specifically.

I'm going to be asking some of these
people if I can share their stories soon.

But generally, people are
able to set better boundaries.

So we have students who are chronic
people pleasers, you know, who

are they'll bring up situations.

And then, as they understand how the what
what's going on in the nervous system

in regards to situations where they
feel they need to, sort of morph into

whatever it is that someone needs them
to be in order to keep that person calm.

And then they understand the
nervous system implications of that.

And what's driving that they're,
they're able to be more true.

And it's not, it's not about everyone
can just F off and, you know, I'm

going to do what I want to do.

That's not it at all.

But they're able to be
more discerning about.

Setting boundaries in ways that protect
them and their own, you know, agency in

life, which has been really cool to watch.

I've had clients, a lot of clients who
are health practitioners in some regard, a

lot who are in coaching or mental health.

We have people who are in all kinds of
different disciplines, but Including

massage and acupuncture and all that, but
we've got people in coaching and mental

health who are saying like, okay, this is
helping me put the pieces together so that

I'm now able to help my clients better.

Like I'm understanding what's
going on with them much better so

that I'm able to bridge that gap
with them and support them better.

So that we're getting, they're kind
of like secondhand client stories

of, of change that are happening.

Recently we had somebody
who injured their back.

Who was just, it just did something that
they didn't normally do and was able

to, the, I think the clinic said that it
would take like six weeks to heal, but

they were able with the understanding
again of what's happening in the nervous

system around this quote injury it wasn't,
it was just kind of a diffuse injury.

It wasn't diagnosed as
like, you, you know.

You actually broke something.

It was more like you strained yourself.

And with some understanding, they
were able to work themselves out of

pain into a functional state in about
two days, rather than six weeks.

So it's, it's kind of all over the
map because it's so individual.

And again, this is, it makes it a
little hard to quantify, but it's

also what I love about it is that
it gives people what they need.

It's not, it's not a program
that is one size fits all.

It gives you what you need for your
next step, your next evolution.

Rupert Isaacson: If it's me and I'm
saying, okay, gosh, Suki, this sounds

fantastic, I'd like to learn all
about my nervous system so that I can

make certain changes in my life, you
know, in my body, in my brain, and

therefore, by extension in my life.

I presume though that people are coming
in at different stages of knowledge.

So you must, you must have people
doing your online courses now who are

Somewhat far along in their education.

Others who are just beginning.

How do you integrate?

How do you, how's it, how's
their inclusion in that?

Yeah, because you've got to
catch certain people up to speed.

Other people are over here.

Or is everything individualized?

How do you, and how do you have
enough time in the day for that?

There's lots of different

Sukie Baxter: No, it's a good question.

It's been something that we've been
working with that I've been working with.

I have a couple coaches
who work with me as well.

So I've, I've done a couple of things.

So one, I implemented a shorter
program that is newer as of last year.

That's kind of like a first step.

It is a first

Rupert Isaacson: entry level
course that somebody would do.

Sukie Baxter: Correct.

And so I, and now I've, I've created
that as a prerequisite for the, the

now we had it more self paced, but now
live again, of course and that just

kind of, it's kind of just a little
bit of a checkpoint of like, is this

something you want to go deeper with?

Is this something that's working for you?

So they actually get to
have the experience of it.

And then I can have a little
bit of a conversation with them.

As needed to find out if the
next step is right for them.

So, so that we've got people coming
into the longer program who are at

a place where like, we're pretty
sure this is where they need to be.

But the other piece of that is
that I am a huge fan of iteration.

So we have students who go back
to our course two and three

times easily because when you go
through it, it hits you one way.

And then once you've kind of.

Gone through the whole arc of it.

You're like, Oh, wait a minute.

I need to go back to the beginning.

And it lands differently.

Right.

And so then you can, you can go
through it multiple times and

there's so much richness there.

So there's that piece.

But similar, you know, I, I came and
spent some time with you and you took

me through like, Really basic stuff,
but it's important, which is like,

here's how you walk with the horse.

Can you walk in a straight line?

Right.

You did those checks with me to make
sure, because if we had progressed.

And you were like, okay, let's jump
into this other thing over here.

But we didn't check to make sure I
could actually balance and walk with a

horse in these different configurations,
then I might've fallen over and

it would have been a real problem.

And so, you know, you, you did those
checks and it was important to do them.

And it prepped my nervous system
for then doing it later, even

though I was able to do it.

Right.

Similarly.

When I'm going through this with people,
yeah, it might be basic information, but

there's probably a few holes in there
for them, and it kind of sets them up.

It gets their brain and their
body in the right state for the

next piece and so on and so forth.

So even if some of it isn't new for
people, I still think it's beneficial

for everyone to go through all of it.

Rupert Isaacson: No, I would agree.

I mean, it's interesting.

You, you talk about me checking
those basics with you when you came

and worked with the horses with me.

The reason I do that is because of course
I used to jump in further up and then

I indeed did have people fall over and
things like that and go, Oh my gosh, I, I

didn't know that that that was possible.

I realized that I had to absolutely
check every step along the way because.

If you didn't, there was almost a
negligence to it that because if someone

can do it, well, they're fantastic.

You just breeze through that
in five minutes and then you

off you go to the next thing.

And I'm also always thinking I'm
training someone to be a teacher.

So I would like them to
do those checks as well.

No matter how apparently experienced
the person in front of them is

because you just don't know.

But when you are teaching
is a time consuming thing.

You now have a lot of people
signing up to your online

courses about the nervous system.

And by the way, listeners, we're
going to tell you how you can do

that, and I really would recommend it.

Learning about my nervous system happened
to me through my son's autism, and it

was life changing for me in terms of
Me being able to have more agency in my

own life having had to learn a bit about
it because of my son So I really really

really really would recommend taking the
time to do a course with Suki But so how

much time do you actually spend in your
day sitting in front of a zoom screen?

Does it not take over your life?

How do you how do you balance
that and you have horses?

I know How do you find time to get
out to them because that does I

know there's an awful lot of people
out there Wanting to do your stuff

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well, and this
is a balancing act that I'm always

working on because as you mentioned,
you know, I have to go 1st and and live

my life in a way that works for me so
that I can share what that's like for,

you know, people who want to do that.

They're not gonna live my life,
but they're gonna live their life

in a way that works for them.

And.

So I, I have to make choices in
my, in my work that allow me to

have the lifestyle that I want.

And that means, you know, both having
the finances that support me and allow

me to live, but also the time freedom,
which is really important to me, because

like you said, I have horses and.

As much as I value the time that I did
in my practice and value the people

that I was able to meet and work with
it was always very hard for me to have

a life that was so heavily scheduled
because literally every hour and a

half you've got a person coming in,
there's no flexibility there whatsoever.

And that was really challenging.

And I just, I think I hit a wall with
that where like, I sort of, I can't do it.

So, so I'm very careful
to keep time freedom.

So I've played with different
structures in my business.

So, you know, my YouTube
videos are always available.

So people can 24 seven go out there
and watch them, which is fantastic.

Because people sometimes at one
in the morning, whatever that is

for them are looking for that.

Rupert Isaacson: Right.

And what might watch and rewatch something
like I watch and rewatch stuff on YouTube.

that I find interesting.

I might watch it 10 times because
there's stuff in there I've missed.

Yeah,

Sukie Baxter: absolutely.

So that's a resource for them.

I have other resources like that as well.

So there's things that people
can do on their own time and

schedule, which don't require my
presence, which is really great.

It also means they don't have to then
say the same things over and over

again, because sometimes you're not

Rupert Isaacson: getting paid for
that when they go and watch YouTube at

this particular stage on that thing.

I

Sukie Baxter: mean, I, I
am, but not reliably, right?

Like I don't base my business on that.

So there's that element of
it, but then my courses.

So that prerequisite course that I
mentioned, that's that entry level kind

of first step course is self paced.

So people again can access that.

It's always there and it's always
a bit as of now, it's always

there and always available.

I don't have any plans to change that,
but someone can enroll in that at, at

any time at their leisure and have that
course without me being there, walking

them personally through every step.

So that, that works for
both of us again, right?

Cause they get the
entry level information.

They're getting the practices.

They're getting their learning.

They're setting themselves up
for further work if they want to,

if that's the path they choose.

And then again, I have that time
freedom where I've provided that for

them and then I can be working with my
horses, teaching people, helping at a

clinic, you know, doing something else,
maybe working with a client when I'm

with, you know, it allows me almost to
duplicate myself, which is fantastic.

Yeah.

And then the course that I'm
teaching live, that was a difficult

decision because I've made it
self paced for that reason, right?

Like, you absolutely can go
through this material on your own

and it has worked for students.

But in observing my students, I felt
it was in their best interest to reset

and actually teach it live again.

So this year, I made
that decision to do it.

But when I made that decision,
I sat with it for a couple of

months before I decided to do it.

And then when I decided to do it, I
looked at when in the year am I okay

with Basically being on every week
and having to consistently show up

and teach and, and I'm okay with that,
but I don't, I don't want to do it

every week of the year, all year long,
because again, I need some time freedom.

I need the ability to
travel and do workshops.

I need the ability to travel for my own.

Learning and my own enjoyment.

I, you know, I need the ability
to have some flexibility.

So I picked basically, we're gonna
have two courses this year, and

they're each 12 weeks in length, and
I picked times where I am okay with

having to be in front of the computer
more during those times of year.

So

Rupert Isaacson: when
are those times of year?

When are you doing them?

Sukie Baxter: So our, our first run
through will be basically we've divided it

up because we have so many practitioners
in our group and there was a profound need

for more mentorship for practitioners.

So our, our personal course, so if you
want to do this journey for yourself,

whether you are a professional or
not our personal nerve apprenticeship

course will be taking place starting
in March and it will run for 12 weeks.

And then people who are in that who
are professionals and would like to

get practitioner mentorship and, and
start to learn how to apply it to

their own clients more intentionally.

That aspect of the course will
start in September of this year.

And again, it will run for 12
weeks, although there's a break

in the middle for holidays.

So it's technically over
the course of 13 weeks.

Rupert Isaacson: So for 24 weeks of the
year, effectively half the year, spring

and fall, you're on, you're going to be.

live and direct doing that.

Okay.

And

that's when you do that, how many hours
of your day does that take up and what's

its effect on your nervous system?

Yeah,

Sukie Baxter: it's that's such a
good question because it takes up

so many more hours than the actual
hours that I'm teaching, right?

Because I'm preparing a
presentation materials.

I am, as one of my friends calls
it, I'm in the parking lot of it.

So, like, I'm thinking about it.

Right?

So even if all the presentation materials
are done and I'm like, ready to go, I'm

still like, putting my brain in that
lane to an extent for quite a while

before and after any kind of course.

So it probably takes up
at least 20 hours a week.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, and that's
not including one to ones that

you're doing, consultancies that
you're doing, and other things.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you put
it all together, it's a working week.

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it is, it
is, because there's also, that's

not the only thing that, as you
know, it takes to run a business.

Right,

Rupert Isaacson: and you've got to, and
you've got to create the material and

film it, and script it and all that.

But you are living free and
writing free through this.

Sukie Baxter: And I, and I like my work.

I think that's really
important too, right?

So, like, this isn't.

Yes, I'm sacrificing some time, but
it's not, I don't look at it as a

sacrifice because I also get the
joy of working with my students.

I get the joy of putting
my head in this material.

Like, the reason I'm doing this
is because I like what I teach.

It's not, it's not so that I can
like sit on a beach and drink Coronas

and collect a paycheck, right?

I love what I do.

Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

No, I couldn't agree more.

I love my work.

You know, I am my work.

I can't live any other way.

I, yeah, I dig what I do.

Do you think that getting in touch with
your nervous system and learning about

it properly helps you to dig what you do?

I mean, I think for so many people that
is the dream to not feel a fuck, you

know Sorry, I said fuck but you know,
it's my podcast I can say that's many

times I want but you don't you know, we
do not want to be thinking that when we

wake up in the morning and Go to work.

We all go through some phases in our
lives where that's been the case and

I think that a bit of time in those
trenches is character building, but

we don't want to stay there forever.

What do you think is the, if people do
want to live free and ride free, they

want to break free and they want to
self actualize and all these things.

The professional expression of
that, what we do for a job is Of

course, really important because
that's what's going to give us the

livelihood to be able to do that.

What do you think is the thing that
people could find the most helpful about

knowing about their nervous systems
that can help free them towards that?

Big question.

Sukie Baxter: It is.

It's a big question.

I think that I think that tapping
into desire is really important.

And I talk about this in my program,
because as I mentioned, we cannot

exist on a spectrum of like this
thing that's unpleasant and then

nothingness on the other side.

So if we remove pain, if we remove
anxiety, if we remove whatever

it is that we are like this,
this sense, this feeling, this

experience I'm having is unpleasant.

I don't like it.

I want something different.

The universe of course, the vacuum,
you can't just take that out of

a person's experience and then.

They're fine.

Like you have to put something there
and I, I think desire is, is where

it lives and we have been so deeply
conditioned to not trust ourselves

around desire and in so many ways.

Yes.

With, you know, love and attraction,
but like food, you know, like we've been

taught, we have to measure and weigh and.

And, you know, like we can't trust
that we, the thing we want to eat,

like, you know, that our bodies
will lead us astray, essentially.

And those are just simple examples,

Rupert Isaacson: but
taking a nap is a sign of

Sukie Baxter: weakness or something.

Yes.

I mean, in so many ways we,
we so beat ourselves up for

wanting things that nourish us.

And we've been conditioned to believe this

Rupert Isaacson: great
means for social control.

It

Sukie Baxter: really is.

And working in those factories,
when you have people who are, this

gets into something I talk about.

A lot too, which is that when you have
a society of people who are dissociated

from their felt self, physical selves,
right, their sense of self, literally our

sense of ourself, how we feel ourselves
if you have a, sorry, there's sirens

I don't know if you can hear that, but
if you have a society of people who

cannot feel themselves, they're, they're
divorced from their sense of self,

then they will feel anxiety, right?

So, so I look at the science
around like amputees.

The pain science.

Right.

If you cut off someone's limb and
your brain can no longer locate

it, then your brain's like, Holy
crap, this is really dangerous.

And you get these weird phantom
limb pains because your brain's

like, I got to map that somehow.

And I'm going to tell you that
something, something's really wrong here.

I can't feel it.

So I'm going to set, I'm going to
push the pain button to tell you.

That it's hurting.

Even though there's no actual limb there
to tell you that it's painful, but your

brain is deciding that there's pain.

And I think that when we divorce ourselves
from our sense of self, when we can't

feel ourselves which we are taught to do,
we're taught to numb out all the time.

We feel this sense of doom and
anxiety around it, and then we become

very steerable, because we will be
sold anything to make that go away.

And that is an object, like, you
know, fashion, or a car, or jewelry,

or, you know, something like that.

Rupert Isaacson: So it's where the
pain goes for ten minutes, yeah.

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, but
it's also ideologies.

Yes.

You get a very steerable group of
people because we will, we will

buy ideologies that make us feel
better, that make that pain go away.

And I think when you start to get
people back into their own physical

bodies and their own felt sense,
we become much less steerable.

And then when you get people
hooked up to desire, I think that's

Rupert Isaacson: world changing.

Now when you say desire, do
you mean aspirational desire?

I desire to write a novel.

Or do you mean desire as in, I desire that
cupcake right now, or do you mean both?

I mean both.

Sukie Baxter: Okay.

And usually it starts with, I
desire that cupcake right now.

But it's also, you know, desire is
not it's not simple either because I

think people think, well, if I just
let myself do whatever I want, then

I'll eat a dozen cupcakes every day.

But the reality is that if you actually
let yourself do what you want over, you

know, and this is a condensed version of
this, but if you actually let yourself

do whatever you want over the course of
time, then you will find that desires

have hierarchy because I might want
to eat a dozen cupcakes every day, but

I don't want to feel the way I feel
after I eat a dozen cupcakes every day.

And so my actual desire
is to feel really good.

And at the essence, that's all.

What we all want is to feel really good.

And so my desire will actually lead me
to choices that make me feel really good.

My desire will lead me to a salad, because
I know I feel good after I eat vegetables.

If

Rupert Isaacson: our desire to feel good
is at the root of self actualization, and

I can see why it would be, because after
all, the vehicle that we're going around

in, is either running well or it's not.

And if it's not running well,
it's less likely to take us to

the place where we want to go.

Is the real key, oddly enough, becoming
a friend to your body, is that the

real key of self actualization?

To

actually learn your body's needs, and
respect them, and nurture them, and

treat yourself like a loved flower bed.

Rather than like, picked
over soccer field.

Is that, is that really where it lies?

Because what else, and if it does, what
is that but the nervous system really?

I couldn't have said it better.

Is that what you meant?

Because I, I wrote down at the beginning,
I wanted to ask you, you talked about

sensing and the importance of sensing.

Is that what sensing, is that
what you mean by sensing?

Is learning to make friends with your
body to the point where you can learn?

Identify that you can have then,
what's the word, appropriate responses

to things in your nervous system.

So that whether it's, well I
don't have to walk around feeling

traumatized all the time because I'm
actually not in danger right now.

As opposed to something traumatic happened
to me, I therefore am going to walk around

with a sense of trauma for 30 years.

To, I would like to have a nap every
afternoon but I feel that I can't.

Because somehow that's letting the
team down, even though I kind of

know that I'm play a better game
when I do, but I am tired right now.

I'm just going to burn through
my tiredness for 50 years.

Is sensing, does sensing become possible
when you begin to identify the nervous

system's needs and what they're telling
you respond appropriately to them?

And then can you just get
more and more subtle with that

until the blocks to your desire?

Melt away, because I know that, and
I'm talking so much right now, and

I will stop in a minute, but I'm,
I'm, I'm just, this, this is all one

question that I'm trying to pose to you.

A lot of us have a, have a very
love hate relationship with desire,

because there are, there are
things that we know that we desire.

Let's say it's writing a novel that
you know that you would feel so

fulfilled if you did that, but you feel
completely blocked from doing that,

because you feel You're not good enough.

You're not worthy of it.

You couldn't do it.

You haven't got the time for it.

There's this, the that,
the da da da da da da.

You look up years go by and
you haven't written that novel.

But you, the desire hasn't gone away.

The desire is now painful.

So the desire is now a sense of failure
and a sense of so you push it away.

And then I want to go
do heroin or whatever.

I am sensing the distress in my nervous
system from that thwarted desire.

So, and heroin will certainly.

Make me feel better for a little bit.

How?

So, so, so, is it the learning of the
nervous system that gives one the chance?

to sense what one truly needs.

So if I want to write that novel and
not do heroin, do I need to learn how

to actually address what my nervous
system needs and then I've actually got

a better chance of writing that novel?

Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well I think
it's a more complicated question.

I love where you're going with this.

But say you want to write a novel,
so I would be wondering, like,

why do you want to write a novel?

Because that's a really
interesting question, right?

Is it because you want to write, because
you have something in you that you care to

share, that you want to get down on paper?

It's important to you to get
something that's been formulating out.

Or is it that you want to write a novel
because you require the recognition

of saying, I've written a book and you
want to be able to walk into a room?

And, and that's, those, those are
something I talk about is the same thing.

Can it can be exactly the same
act, but it can be completely

different motivations, right?

So two people can run up a Hill.

One person's running up a Hill
because they really love to run.

It feels good.

They love how they feel.

After they run, they love
the feeling of strength.

And yes, it's really hard in the moment.

And maybe they kind of are resistant
because, you know, they know that they're

going to breathe hard and be sore and
you know, it's uncomfortable, but they,

they do it because they are, they love
that aspect of their physical fitness.

Another person might be running up
that hill because they're mad at

themselves for eating a dozen cupcakes.

And they feel that they have to somehow
atone for food that they ate, but they

really don't want to run up the hill.

They're doing it almost as
punishment for themselves.

Two people running up the hill
looks exactly the same, two people

writing a novel looks exactly the
same, but what's the motivation,

what's the drive behind it, right?

So that's, I think when we talk
about desire, we have to talk

about intrinsic motivation.

What are we intrinsically motivated to do?

What is it that we are
doing for its own reward?

So if you are a person who loves
to sit down and write, like there's

nourishment in that process for you.

Then you can break it down.

It's not that writing
the novel is the thing.

It's the sitting down and writing.

Well, how can you do that
for two minutes a day?

How can you do that
for five minutes a day?

How can you find space for that?

How can you write it on post it notes?

How, you know, whatever it is for that
person, how can I, how can I make sure

that I'm getting the nourishment of
this thing that fulfills me in my life?

And the more that we make choices to
do the things that nourish us, the

more we are in alignment with the life
that is true to us, which again, looks

different for every single person.

Rupert Isaacson: And you
use the word nourishment.

Nourishment is also a
physical thing, food.

Food goes into us.

We, we, we sense that we are hungry.

What is telling us that we are hungry?

Presumably our nervous system.

Yes.

What is telling us when we're full?

Presumably our nervous system.

What is telling us actually that dozen
cupcakes made me feel a bit sick?

Presumably our nervous system.

Sukie Baxter: It's, it
goes back to sensing.

You're sensing it.

It's, it's the physical
sensations that you have.

It's how we know everything.

Right.

It, I think this is also kind of a
revelation for people, but all of

our emotions are physical sensations.

Those are just labeled.

Rupert Isaacson: It's true.

It's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's true.

And we, we can, some of them are actually
physical, physically painful, and some of

'em are actually physically, you're right.

Mm-Hmm.

, are thoughts physical?

I guess they must be right.

Sukie Baxter: Thoughts
are sensory information.

So typically when you have a thought,
you'll also have a corresponding

physical reaction to that.

So, maybe a facial expression, maybe
a certain tension or a posture.

It might even just be like a twinge
in, you know, somewhere in your

inside somewhere maybe a shortening
of breath or more fullness of breath.

Right?

So different thoughts will, will
impact us, which is where we get

the, Oh, if I think a thought,
my body will respond in this way.

That's true.

They're, they're interconnected,
but it's two ways.

It's a two way street.

Rupert Isaacson: So if I want to nourish.

Myself, then I need to become a friend
to my nervous system, which means

I then have to know what it needs.

We are coming up on the over
two hour mark, and I want to

continue this conversation.

I'd like to have you on again, because
I feel that we're all of the rabbit

holes that need to go be gone down.

If we're coming towards wrapping
up this part of what I hope

will be a longer conversation.

And we want to become, to nourish
the nervous system, become friends

with the body and nourish the nervous
system so that all these other

things that we talked about can
flirt out from our nervous system.

What are the basic steps that you
think any homo sapiens sapiens alive

on planet earth would do well to take?

Sukie Baxter: I think that
the foundational step is to

develop The ability to describe
your sensory experience.

Notice and describe
your sensory experience.

So, in 15 years of working with
people, I would ask the question you

know, essentially, I was looking for,
like, what in your body or, you know,

what's your sensory experience in your
body, but I would ask that in various

ways of like, what are you noticing?

What has your attention?

I try to avoid.

What do you feel?

Because people then usually kind of go
off into emotions sometimes, not always.

Yeah.

But it's really challenging for a
whole society of people who've been

conditioned not to notice our bodies,
to dismiss our bodies, to You know,

basically, yeah, overrides a great word.

Override everything's happening.

I mean, literally, you know,
when you're a child, they

condition you to not move, right?

So you get, you get recess.

It's a, it's a short period of time.

That you get to run
around and then the rest

Rupert Isaacson: of the
time you are in the toilet.

Yeah,

Sukie Baxter: sure.

Yeah.

And, and your food, you know,
you can't eat when you're hungry.

You can't go to the bathroom when
you need to go to the bathroom.

You can't move when you
feel the urge to move.

You basically take every urge
that you feel in your body

and you just suppress it.

And, and then we become very good at this.

Well, that's a useful skill because
you can't always just, you know,

do whatever, whenever if you're on
an airplane, you can't, you know,

run around like a crazy person.

There's just not enough room.

But.

Getting back to a place where you can,
like you said, become a friend to your

nervous system requires noticing what
your nervous system is telling you.

And I have found that the people who
develop what I call sensory skills, which

is the ability to sense and describe
your nervous system state do best

with nervous system work, they, they
tend to have the most benefit from it.

So I emphasize that in
the work that I teach.

And I think it's just a foundational
skill that if we taught this

to kids, I think we would have.

You know, more productive conversations.

I think we would have healthier adults,

Rupert Isaacson: right?

And probably better economies because
people are productive when they're

Sukie Baxter: happy Yeah, and I think we'd
have a more peaceful world to that old

Rupert Isaacson: thing.

Yes, that would be nice Okay
Stencing is listening, right?

So

Sukie Baxter: noticing
it's it's attending.

It's having attention towards something,

Rupert Isaacson: right?

when we pick this conversation up
again and listen as we're going

to we're gonna plunder that suki
mind as much as we possibly can.

That suki mind.

I would like to talk more about sensing
and listening because I feel that that

is, if the nervous system's at the
root of everything and it is sensing

and listening, right, it is to listen.

To hear is a sense, to feel is a sense,
but it's all taking in the information.

Noticing, as you say, it sounds
such a banal thing to notice.

But as you say, we're taught to
override on notice, which means we're

taught to override our intuition.

Which means that we might not sense when
someone is scamming us, or whatever,

because our intuition is suppressed.

Presumably that's not helpful.

How do we What nervous system work can we
do to get back to that more optimal state

where we can sense, kind of, correct,
navigate, perhaps, better through life.

Can we pick that up next

Sukie Baxter: time?

Absolutely.

Rupert Isaacson: So that's a
bit of a cliffhanger, guys.

But at least you know how to make
a YouTube video work and you know

how to listen to your body a bit.

But the listening goes deeper.

And I want to explore this.

So, with your permission, Suki,
I think we'll make a date and

go for a round two of this.

So, yeah.

I would love that.

As, I presume a lot of people are driving
their cars as they're listening to this.

If you've got, as you sign off,
and we also, I want people to

know where they can find you.

So I want you to give the
websites and all of that.

Emails, everything they can do
as they sign off and they're

driving their car right now.

What would you like them to notice and how

Sukie Baxter: your peripheral
vision that's something that

you can actually notice while
you're driving is become aware.

So you don't have to even move your eyes.

You can keep them on the road just as
you are, which is the safest thing.

But just as you are looking
forward to notice that you can see.

In your peripheral vision, notice
the light at the sides of your eyes.

Notice that you see movement
along the side of the road.

So you're, you're still looking ahead.

You're still keeping your
eyes on the road, but you're

expanding that field of vision.

And what that does is a couple of things.

It helps your nervous system shift
into that parasympathetic state.

But it also gives your
brain new context, right?

Because if you're just
tunnel vision on one thing.

Your brain's only taking in that very
narrow field of vision, so as soon as

you begin to notice that you actually
see quite a lot more than maybe you're

noticing that you're seeing, it's,
it's now sending more information to

your brain about your environment,
now giving new context, now, now

giving new cues to what's going on.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

I'm going to be getting in my car soon.

I'm going to do it.

I was actually doing that sitting here
in the room as you were talking that,

and I'm noticing the daybed that's here
in the office that's off to my right.

I'm not looking at it, but I can
actually see the striped blanket

on it now, my peripheral vision,
and I can see the window to my

left out of my, and it's true.

It, it feels oddly enough, a little bit

Sukie Baxter: liberating to do that.

It's more spacious, especially when
you've been staring at a screen.

And this is such a great practice.

So like when you go from
a screen to your car.

You know, you can get out of this
tiny little, I have a laptop, so

my screen is actually pretty small.

This tiny little box that your eyes have
been focused on and actually remind your

brain and your body that you have this
huge 360 degree environment around you.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,
it's a wonderful thing.

All right.

So how do people find you Suki?

Sukie Baxter: Well, my
website is fullbodyrevolution.

com.

Rupert Isaacson: Whole Body Revolution.

Yep.

W, not just an H, presumably.

Sukie Baxter: Yes, W, with a W.

Yes, as in Whole Foods.

Whole Foods, Whole Body Revolution.

Exactly.

Dot com.

Dot

Rupert Isaacson: com.

WholeBodyRevolution.

com.

Okay.

Sukie Baxter: And that's
my home on the web.

And then I'm obviously on
YouTube and it's youtube.

com forward slash Suki Baxter
spelled S U K I E B A X T E R.

And I'm sure

Rupert Isaacson: you'll
think of it again email,

Sukie Baxter: Hello at
whole body revolution.

com.

Rupert Isaacson: Oh, I like that.

I I'm so boring with my info and
my admin at you have hello at God.

I'm not worthy.

I

Sukie Baxter: don't think

Rupert Isaacson: that's true.

So hello at wholebodyrevolution.

com.

Yes.

Cool.

Hello at wholebodyrevolution.

com to email Suki and wholebodyrevolution.

com to check out the website
and the online courses.

Yes.

Okay.

To tap into the nature of
desire, how can one resist and

nurture that nervous system?

All right.

So Suki, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for

Sukie Baxter: having me.

Rupert Isaacson: You've
given us a ton here.

Everything from, it's, it's what
I love is it's also practical.

This is what you can do for your body.

This is what you can do to
optimize your YouTube video.

This is what you can do
to nurture yourself more.

This is what you can do to free yourself
from certain types of past trauma.

You've been so informative and
so generous with your knowledge.

I'm, I'm, I'm grateful.

I'm, I'm walking away
with tools for myself.

telomere is.

T E L O M E R E.

Wonderful.

Which is clearly.

Taken up with genetics.

So I want to look at the these
effects of stress on genetics Which

it must be the aging thing, but I
wasn't aware of those until today.

Thank you whole body revolution Okay,
everybody, you know where to go.

So I'm gonna press that dreaded red
button Suki, thank you Thank you again.

See you next time.

Thank you for joining us.

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