Live Free Ride Free with Rupert Isaacson

Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free
Ride Free, where we talk to people who

have lived self-actualized lives on
their own terms, and find out how they

got there, what they do, how we can
get there, what we can learn from them.

How to live our best lives, find
our own definition of success,

and most importantly, find joy.

I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.

New York Times bestselling
author of the Horse Boy.

Founder of New Trails Learning
Systems and long ride home.com.

You can find details of all our programs
and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.

Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free,
where we talk to people who live

self-actualized lives and find out
how they did it and how they still do

it, and what can we learn from them.

What's the true meaning of success?

What's the true meaning of fulfillment?

Is it money?

Is it career?

Is it how you feel inside?

Is it your creativity?

Is it all of the above?

Is it none of the above?

What does it mean to you?

So we have the amazing, by any
standards, Jane Pike, with us

tonight, who is jolly interesting.

Why is Jane Pike jolly interesting?

Well, Jane Pike was an early pioneer
of, the online membership, equestrian

learn to train your horse or learn
to ride better type stuff That came

out a few years ago on the internet.

And, many, many, many
people have done this.

I myself have signed up for quite
a few of these things because hey,

it's always good to learn something.

And I know some people who've
certainly made money at it.

I don't know many people who have
managed to both be economically

successful at it and also genuinely
help people out and also do it from

a perspective that is neurological.

showing people how to really access
what's in their bodies, the sort of

wisdom of the nervous system, in a
way that goes far transcends horses.

she's also a poet but she don't know it.

but you'll soon know it.

cuz there'll be something published quite
soon and she's sort of all around awesome.

and she very definitely lives life
on her own terms down there on the

south island of New Zealand when she's
not traveling all over the world.

And so I feel that we could tap
into some Jane Pike wisdom about

how do you do something like this?

How do you become financially,
creatively, independent like this

and live in this extraordinary place
and help people out all over the

world and still sort of remain cool.

So, without further
ado, welcome Jane Pike.

Jane Pike: Thank you.

That was a bit of, that was the loveliest
introduction I've ever, ever had.

And the, the stay cool bit is
questionable, but we'll, we'll

Rupert Isaacson: see how we will Well
it's, it's, it's nothing but the truth.

and, and there are many people
who'll be listening right now

who are, followers of Jpi.

Jpi has a website called confident
Writer Do com and a online Do com online.

Sorry.

Good lord.

Jane Pike: I did No, that's alright.

By the early pioneers
and we'll just buy all

Rupert Isaacson: writer names.

Yeah.

Online.

I'll say it three times cuz if what,
what I said three times is true Confident

writer.online, confident writer,
do online Confident writer.online.

And her joyride program has
thousands of people around the world.

And I'm always running into
people go, oh, I'm a Jerry Penk,

so let's find out why they are.

so Jane Pipe,

Jane Pike: who are you?

Who am I?

in what sense?

In what sense should we begin the
who I who, who are you conversation?

Rupert Isaacson: Well, you could begin
it in the, physical sense as in I am

this person who lives here and does this.

Yes.

You could begin it in the esoteric sense
of I was once this person who lived there

and did that, but then returned to source
and came back as a, as a flee and then

went through my reincarnation cycles.

Or you could just tell us who you are.

Jane Pike: Yeah.

Well, I, I am Jane.

I'm Jane.

Thank you for having me here.

At the moment, I live in a little corner
of the south island of New Zealand,

and I wasn't born here originally.

I was born in Australia.

but my travels took me to New Zealand when
I was in my late teens, actually, which

is kind of a funny story because, one
of my best friends from school, Claire,

we wanted to travel after we'd done a
period of study and we wanted to go to

Asia and we went to the travel agent
and said, this is where we wanna go.

And they were like, oh,
well that's holiday time.

It's all booked out.

And she said, but what about New Zealand?

And both of us went, oh, New
Zealand, why would we wanna go there?

It's just like Australia.

That was kinda our thought, at the time
in our ignorant Australian mindset.

but then because we both wanted
to get out of the country, we

were like, oh, okay, let's go.

And so we hired a little car and
drove around the, south island

of New Zealand for two weeks, and
I instantly fell in love with it.

and then we were, we decided, at that
point that after the next semester

of university that we would come back
and do a longest in over the summer.

and Claire pulled out on that longest
stint and I decided to come by myself,

and then I just didn't go home, basically.

so that was my,

Rupert Isaacson: this
was in your late and now.

You, you at this point, you know, we're
fast forwarding to your current career.

So you've got this hyper
successful online, business doing

equestrianism and the nervous
system, the human nervous system.

I presume you weren't doing
that in your early teens.

In your late teens, but no,
what was the groundwork?

What were you doing
then that's led to that?

Led to now?

Jane Pike: Oh my goodness,
that's like a lot of territory.

a lot of territory to cover that's
think we're doing so late podcast.

When I think about it, late teens
is probably an inaccurate, it

would've been very early twenties.

I'm, I'm my, I'm time
morphing now in my mind.

But, what led to it?

a period of massive indecision
and not knowing what to do with my

life for like 10 years probably.

But, I, my start point was I
was very academic at school.

and I was one of those people
that had a very clear idea of what

I was going to do with my life.

I was like, right, I'm gonna
tickle of these boxes and I'm

going to come out of school.

And I got a scholarship to Sydney
University for Communications Law.

and I knew that at that point I had to,

Rupert Isaacson: get a specific
Carlie Min Oak's lawyer

Jane Pike: to get a
specific score at school.

And so my whole.

Like life literally was oriented
around study and getting this

score that I needed to get, to
get into the course that I wanted.

and they were very selective.

It was like, at that stage, the way that
the school system worked, you took, you

took your best five subjects out of like
a series of subjects that you were doing,

and each of those subjects had a score out
of 20, and I had to get over 96 out of a

hundred overall to get the scholarship.

, and so that's what happened.

And so, so I got into, I got into this
degree, this double degree, and I, I went

from a, a little town in rural Tasmania at
that point, to, to the center of Sydney.

And, I had like an apartment
and it was like a, a complete

shock to the nervous system.

And I just remember sitting there a few
weeks in thinking, what am I doing here?

I was kind of like desperately homesick.

And I also had this very clear.

I don't know if you'd call it vision,
but just sense of what the end of that

particular period of study would most
probably look like, which is me sitting

in an office, sorting through paperwork,
climbing my way up this chain of like,

whatever it is I need to climb up to get,
to whatever position that I wanted to be.

And I just thought, I just, this
is just not gonna make me happy.

I was like, this is, this is not gonna

Rupert Isaacson: make happen.

How long did it take you to make,
to come to that realization?

Jane Pike: About four weeks.

Okay.

Rupert Isaacson: And so I
remember pleading with, well,

Jane Pike: expedited process.

That's good.

Yeah.

I remember pleading with my
parents and being like, can I

just, I just wanna come home.

And they were like, stay till the
end of this, you know, period.

Get it sorted, go and see the counselor.

We think you're just homesick
and all of these things.

And in the end I had like a little,
Mitsubishi cult, which was like a

little red snotty car that, was
probably questionably roadworthy.

And I just packed it up to the ceiling and
drove, three states across Australia home.

And that was the end of, of that
particular, moment in my life and also the

end of clarity, for what I was gonna do.

And then it just became like a
hotchpotch for the next sort of,

Rupert Isaacson: but look at you now.

You've got, you've got nervous system
expertise, which we're gonna dive into

because if you're listening, you do
want to know some of the things that

Jane knows about your nervous system.

They're useful.

Mm-hmm.

and horses.

So where do

the horses come in?

Jane Pike: So my mom was and
is a passionate horse woman.

and I had horses from the
moment that I was born.

She had horses.

And I think it was a huge convenience
that I happened to be interested in

what she was into, because I think
if I hadn't been, I, I, I, I think I

just would've had no option basically.

So it was just kind of handy.

and she had a, a horse called Icon who
was a Arab Cross, something, something

cross something, something that was, she
had him since she was, he was a two year

old and he, he actually only relatively
recently passed away in his forties.

So she had him literally his whole life.

And she used to ride all of the time.

And I've got photos of me plunked up
on, on Icon from a very early age.

And then when I was about five,
my dad said to me, come with me.

You're gonna come, come,
we're gonna go for a walk.

And the, the area that we lived there
was a, a road that led up to like the

end of a, a bush track or a clearing.

And mom rode this pony from a
friend's house that instantly she had

got him from through the clearing.

And that was captain who was gonna be my.

Who was my pony, basically.

and he was rescued out of a bramble
bush, on the side of the road in

kind of slightly dilapidated state
and had been, brought back to health.

And now I had this like black,
wild main, unidentified breeding

pony that was, that was mine.

And we, we were very fortunate at
the time, that the area that we

were in was surrounded by farmland.

And the farmer also bred
riding ponies on the side.

And so he was horse horse
friendly and let us ride.

Overall his paddocks, which was sort
of about 500 acres and very like hill,

massive h you know, hills and bush and
rivers and all those sorts of things.

So I just used to take off on captain
and like, ride around the, the paddocks.

And what was really glorious about
it looking back was my lack of,

Just self-consciousness about
that experience because he was

like a very wild looking pony.

But I used to take him in all the
competitions with all the fancy ponies

that were all platted up, and I had
no clue that I was like, completely

inappropriate for that setting.

I'd just be like, tering round,
like, and both of our hair would

be going all over the place.

And all my, you know, I just didn't
have the, didn't have the gear.

I was the opposite of
all the gear and no idea.

I was like, no gear and no idea.

But it was, it was pretty fun.

Yeah.

And mum used to come writing as well,

Rupert Isaacson: with did at some point
the gear and the ideas come together.

So did you and, and mum sort of
get the showing thing together

and then end up sort of killing it
in the shows at a certain point?

Yeah, my sister.

How, how'd that happen?

Jane Pike: My sister as well.

Well, I, I don't know.

I think that, Like it really is this
unclear in my mind about what made

that decision come for my mom and dad.

But, they were both competitive runners.

and so that's how they met my mom was one
of the first, was, was the first women,

woman to run competitively in Australia.

She came over on like the $2
ticket from the UK and there were

no races for women at that point.

So she started running with
the men and she beat them.

and they were very put out
about that, which c created some

women's races in Australia.

And so she was running the five and 10,000
meters and my dad was a sprinter and

so, they met and hit it off obviously.

And I think that why I mentioned that
was because they had like a competitive

streak in them that , maybe when I was
flying around with like main flying in

the wind and they saw these other people
and they saw how into it I was, they

thought maybe there would be a possibility
for me to take it a little bit further.

And so, or maybe they just couldn't
stand it and they wanted to do better.

And so they brought me, they brought me
a pony called Mini, who was a writing

pony and she was, amazing actually.

And I was just, I just remember being
shocked cuz I went from like, I.

This little bush pony to like this
quite fancy little, other pony.

You had lots of issues at the time.

It's so funny.

Retrospectively looking back where, you
know, like she was very cold backed and

had issues that I would now treat from,
from a variety of perspectives like

Rupert Isaacson: body wear,
those who, who are not horsey.

Cold back means your
lighties get back, bucked

Jane Pike: off when you Yeah.

So I used to like leap on and then
there would be like a moment where

you'd go around the arena like two or
three times and that was just standard.

Like my parents never used to think
anything of it, which is so weird

because now if I put my child on a
pony like that, I wouldn't do it.

But it was just like, oh yeah, she's fine.

You just need to sort of
get through that first part.

so that's what we did and she
progressively got better and better.

She was quite young when I got her.

and so we had quite a successful showing
career together and and I had sort of

lots of other horses in between that were
part of what I just did my whole life.

I just used to get up before school
and ride and I rode after school and

I mucked out stables and did the whole
works and, that was my life pretty much.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: So you, you're
in obsessive perfectionist,

competitive horsey family.

You are out there showing and

Jane Pike: Well, that, that's a strong
label, Rupert, it's a strong label.

Rupert Isaacson: and then you
decide to go off to university

to become Carlie minnow's lawyer.

Decide that

Jane Pike: that might be, but I
actually wanted to be a journalist.

That was my, my true passion.

But, they offered like a double degree.

And so it was like, oh, why not?

Like, that was just my thought.

Why not?

Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

Then four weeks into that out of
Tasmania, you decide, no, this is awful.

I need to get back home.

Yes.

and then you say, that
was the end of clarity.

So knowing you now you
are, you seem pretty clear.

I see you mentoring people
on how to run businesses.

I see you mentoring people
on how to do online stuff.

I see you mentoring people on
how do you get their nervous

systems together and so on.

So what if you say that
non clarity hit you?

how long did it hit you for
and where did it lead you?

What, 20 years.

Okay.

That's good.

That's a good minimum.

Jane Pike: I'm sorry.

No, no, not quite that long, but
I'm, I'm, I'm joking, but I'm

Rupert Isaacson: not joking.

We get to my 20 years.

It's sort of Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Only 20

Jane Pike: years.

You know, it's like clarity is
an interesting word, isn't it?

Because, I had been trained
into an expectation of what I

should do when I left school.

And a smart person, who does well at
school, you know, this is sort of the

labels that, I did well at school
because I was so afraid of not doing well.

You know, from the point of like
letting people down or getting in.

It wasn't motivated from a place
of like, wow, learning's amazing.

Let's like make the most of this.

It was like, if I don't do this,
I'm gonna disappoint someone.

Yeah.

And if I, if I, I don't
wanna disappoint someone.

I don't wanna get in trouble.

I, I, I don't know that I learned this.

It's a lot of us, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know that I learned as much as
I really was good at playing the game.

Mm-hmm.

I'm like, okay, I know what you
need for this exam, and I will

learn exactly what you need.

I will predict the questions, and when I
get there, I will spew out everything I

know and that will get me a perfect score.

Which is true.

Like, I, I was, I was smart in
that I could decipher what was

required of me, and I could predict
it and, and I gave it to them.

It's, it's different from learning, you
know, because now I couldn't necessarily,

think back to what it is that I
learn and, and tell you with passion.

I just knew that.

In this particular area of study
like history or English or that,

this is probably the question that
they're gonna ask me based on what

we've studied or one of these.

And so literally if I write the essay
beforehand and I memorize it, I can

change the introduction and I can change
the conclusion around the question and I

will just give you what you wanna hear.

And that's what I did.

and so I think that that
brought me success at school.

and so when I stepped outside of that
and all of a sudden the framework

that was comfortable to me, which
was, here are my friends, here is

this institution, here is this place
that I know, what the rules are.

And I notice, you know, the wider world.

I notice that actually for
the first time, like, well,

shit, this is actually my life.

This isn't like getting to the
next stage of like 17 or 18.

This is like where I'm supposed to
sit when I'm 40 or 50 or 60 or 70.

Like, and is that what I want?

I think I've always had that little
spark in me thinking about that.

And I just, it rebelled at
the, at the, at that moment.

And and then it threw me into a
huge amount of conclusion, confusion

because I became somewhat of the joke.

And this was a bit of a ego
bruise because, but I was the

person that if my friends.

Were like, oh, who's gonna make
it or who's gonna do the thing?

They'd be like, oh, Jane, Jane will do it.

Like she's, she'll do it.

And then all of a sudden I was the
one blanking out of university,

and I was the one trying a million
different things and going to these

crazy places, and it became a thing of
like, oh, Jane's doing another thing.

Or Jane's like, oh, Jane's doing this now.

And it was, it was very challenging
for me to take, I'm sure in some ways

they meant it lovingly and, and that,
or they didn't mean anything by it.

But for me, who had created a lot of
my identity, I think, and value around

academic success, it was a lot.

Like, I, I really was
wobbling inside with that.

and did wobble for the next sort of
10 years, even though retrospectively

I did a lot of stuff, which
people would think was very cool.

And I think on reflection, I, I can
see how it was, I, I know at the time

I probably didn't get the most out of
it because I just really struggled with

who I was at that point and where it was

Rupert Isaacson: going.

So, talk us through
these wilderness years.

We know that at a certain point, you had
a look at New Zealand and have ended up

there, but there's more so, so, so, so
you, you, you come back from Tasmania,

you're thinking, oh God, what do I do?

yeah, my identity's been right.

What happens?

Jane Pike: Where do you go?

Yeah, I just rack up some student debt,
like trying lots of different things

that I never finish and have some
kind of like financial, obligation

to, which was, you know, as an adult
I wouldn't do that, but at the time

it just didn't really occur to me.

Yeah, it didn't really occur to
me that that was gonna be a thing.

and I did study, health science
and got into sort of naturopathy and

herbal medicine as part of that, which
was the beginnings I think, of, of

leading to where it is that I am now.

Rupert Isaacson: What led you from,
from being journalist and wanting to

be, Hugh Jackson and Kylie Menino
lawyer to Herbs and her, I I had You

always had a bit of a yen that way or?

Jane Pike: Yeah, I think so.

I think so.

And there was a few, kind of key
incidents in here, which, now again

retrospectively I see that fe have fed
into what it is that I'm doing now.

So one of the big life changers at that
point was that my parents moved from

where we'd always lived from my like
duration of sort of 10 to 19, to Victoria,

which is in, on mainland Australia.

So we'd lived in Tasmania
up until that point.

And, I moved over as well.

I, I, lived on a different property
to them with my horses, and just had

a really, really hard time with like
isolation and and kind of venturing

out into the adult world in a way
that perhaps wasn't the most ideal

transition in that I moved to somewhere
where I didn't know anyone, where I

was very isolated with the horses.

My parents were coming six months later,
so my family wasn't there yet and it

was just like this, I think health-wise
that really started to knock me around.

And again, looking back, I dunno why that
was a supportive decision, but again,

it's just a different time, isn't it,
when you just do different things than

what it is you do for your own kids now.

But the reason that this is relevant
is because, at that stage I was

really suffering health-wise.

I had like a lot of different back
issues, which I'd had my entire teens,

like to the point where my back would
just burn and I couldn't escape, the

pain that I was feeling in my back.

And, I had a lot of anxiety.

There was, that was definitely a feature.

I would say I was a very imbalanced
human at that moment in time for a

few different reasons that fed in.

And so I started to seek out different
solutions to my own wellness.

And at 1.1 of those solutions was to,
I went to a, a fair, like a wellness

fair and saw a chiropractor there
who like got out all of the machines

and like read the amount of tension
that was in my system and, and put

me on like this prescription of like
ridiculous amounts of sessions with him.

And he popped a vertebrae, popped
a vertebrae, popped a disc in

my back with his adjustments.

And so, yeah, so that was, so then
I, I became even more, incapacitated

with my own stuff at that point.

And so that led me, like I said, into
being interested in different alternative

therapies and I was quite stoic at that
point in time and I didn't wanna take,

I don't really know why, but I didn't
wanna take traditional pain medication

or painkillers and, and so I just, I,
I think, well, when I say I dunno why,

like I, I had seen people in my family,
you know, struggle with different,

medications for, for different reasons.

And I guess that part of me was like very
much not wanting to be in that same ilk.

So that led me on the
health science route rootin.

And that led me further down, wanting to
study yoga at a different period of time

and breath work and all of these things.

And, and that was definitely a
huge part of the next sort of 10

years that followed after that.

Rupert Isaacson: So you just
said yoga and breath work.

And wellness.

So, okay.

You're, you're looking for
solutions for your back.

Yeah.

You're there in Victoria
wondering what to do.

You've got the family
horses, is that right?

On a family property, but you
are supposed to kind of look

after, but you dunno anybody.

Yeah.

and now you've got a bad back,
which, isn't helpful of course if

you're gonna work with horses and
it's young to have a bad back.

So what do you find and how does that
lead you to yoga and breath work and

where does yoga and breath work lead you?

Jane Pike: So there's so many odd
transitions in this part of the story.

This is like, you know, if you looked
at like a ball of wool at this point,

this is like the bit where it's all
like tangled in together and there's

lots of different moving parts.

Yoga and breath work.

So I decided at some point that I needed
to do something a little bit different,

to what it was that I was doing.

And I really had got myself into a,
a, a bit of a bad place mentally and

physically, at that point in time.

And, and the transition, came where I
had horses that were, you know, that

were either very young or that were.

Able to be sort of
semi-retired by that stage.

So I had no kind of middle
ground horses at that moment.

And so what that meant is that my horses
could go onto my parents' property and

essentially they could look after them
without it being a really big deal.

Cause they had quite a lot of
land at that point in time.

And so there was an opening, I guess,
for me to do something different

because that, at that point my
commitment to my animals would've

probably stopped me doing other things.

But it just so happened that that
was possible, at that moment.

And that was where, I
decided to go to New Zealand.

And with your back, back in New Zealand?

Yeah.

Well, my back was kind of like workable
at that point, but it was sort of

like just permanently not okay.

So they thought I had
rheumatoid arthritis.

They thought I had like loads of
different things that were going on

because it was sort of unusual to
have the degree of what I had, at

the age that I was like you said.

And so I went to New Zealand and the
second stage of that, which is when

I sort of jumped ship and moved over
there for the summer, I met an Israeli

and ended up going back to Israel
with him like you do, like I do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that was after, living in New
Zealand for a period of time and

starting to whle wobble around.

And at that stage, I was in Tel Aviv
and there was a gym across the road.

I.

And the gym was the first place that
I started to learn Hebrew because I

was doing this horrendous spin class,
and they'd be like, LA, la la, la

which is like up, down, up, down.

And so I started to learn all, all my
Hebrew was coming from, like the things

that the gym people were shouting
at me, in, in classes to, to do.

And, and so I, I, I was just
like, on a mission basically.

I had this like window, where
I wasn't working necessarily.

I was living off savings.

And I, decided to just get well.

And as one of those classes was a yoga
class, and I went into the yoga class

and I, in my competitive mindset was
like, I am really bad at yoga, which

is like what a lot of people say.

And it was just because I was
like, had the flexibility of a

concrete truck and , just kind of
found everything quite challenging.

But I kept going.

And I thought, oh, maybe this is going
to be able to help me in some way.

And that really was kind of the catalyst
for seeking, out physical therapies

that would allow me to, find ease
basically to just not be in pain.

and.

Alongside of that.

Again, like I find this really
difficult to explain because

I can't make sense of it.

A lot of these transitions myself,
it's all kind of like bound together.

But I think that there, like there'd
always been a part of me that was

a seeker, and they'd always been a
part of me that was interested in,

you know, spirituality and wellness.

And that was motivated by like another
parallel thread in my life where,

you know, someone in my family was
incredibly unwell for the duration

of my life in, mental health wise.

And I just remember thinking, that to
be out of control of my own mind was

like the worst fate that I can imagine.

Rupert Isaacson: Before you, you were
exposed to that as a kid, you saw

Jane Pike: Yes.

You saw mental illness
within the family Yes.

And had to deal.

Yeah, very much so.

And I think that kind of also informed
a lot of what I talked about earlier

as far as like, you know, just wanting
to not rock the boat and to be the

good girl and to tick the boxes.

Because that just meant I could
keep things as stable as possible,

and probably wasn't an element
of control in my own life.

Right.

And I think that's where a
lot of the pain came from

Rupert Isaacson: you.

Cause I think, I think, I think for a
lot of reader, listeners, they, they

might be like, well, you know, hold on.

She's, you know, lifting the stuffy spot
and then she's got these horses and Yeah.

This, but one of the things which we
all know is that these things can mask

other things under the surface and.

So if you were indeed dealing with
mental illness in a sort of, in your

face kind of a way, then yes, indeed.

No matter how many on the
surface nice things are going on,

there's an underlying insecurity.

And as a child that is difficult
because it's your security.

So do you feel that your Yeah,
your, your, your, the seeds of

you as a seeker of human wellness?

I, I feel this is such an overused
term, but, can't think of a better

one at this particular point.

Human, okayness, really?

Mm-hmm.

Human, the healing that brings us to, that
started actually quite early in your life.

Do, do, do you feel that that was really

Jane Pike: actually yeah.

Very, very early.

And there are three strands that, that
aren't necessarily altruistic in the first

instance, although they have hopefully
become more so that, the first is to

wanna save someone that you love, right?

So, that was one of my
initial motivations.

And after I, you know, absconded
from the, the journalist and the law

degree, I thought, well, maybe I'll
be a psychiatrist or maybe I'll be

a psychologist because that, or, or
a, a, a researcher that could study

like the ways that the brain works
and, and so that I could stop, will

help you know, this person and also
stop it happening from other people.

And then the second thread of
that was what if that's what

if that's my destiny, right?

Like, what if there's nothing I can do?

What if this is my lot?

What if this is what I'm going to become?

Wow.

And so that was the second thread of that.

And then the third thread was,
I used to get quite nervous as a

competitor and I did love writing.

And so the psychology of like positive
thinking and being able to control

yourself mentally and emotionally
was always really interesting to me.

Like, ever since I can remember
my bedside table was like

stacked with books about that.

That was what I heard.

Did you

Rupert Isaacson: find those books yourself
or did other, did did your, your friends?

Jane Pike: I did find those books myself.

Yeah.

My mom had one.

oh, I can see the cover of it.

That winning feeling by, oh, she just
recently passed away that her name's just

gone out of my head and she was such a,

Rupert Isaacson: I'm gonna
look it up on my phone that

Jane Pike: way.

Yes.

But that was, my mom had that like
very doggy book and so that kind of

sparked my, was that a helpful book?

Would you say?

Yeah.

You know, at the time I think
it was well ahead of its time.

Now we'd see it as part of perhaps more
the pop psychology, positive thinking,

James boy, that winning queen and boy.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, because we're so fortunate
these days to be exposed to so

much more because of the internet.

I think that a lot of what she
mentions in there would perhaps say,

we'd say as part of the mainstream,
movement within like, you know,

affirmations and positive thinking
and visualization, that sort of thing.

But at the time, that
was pretty revolutionary,

especially in the horse world.

And so I used to have that as my Bible.

Rupert Isaacson: And, did you used to do
affirmations when you were Yeah, I did.

Like I going with

Jane Pike: the shows and such.

Yeah.

Did did it help?

Yeah.

Kind of hurt.

I did.

Okay.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: Did you,
did you feel a shift?

Did you feel AK in your
chest sort of thing

Jane Pike: or No?

I, I, no, I think that I always had
that underlying, disease within myself,

but it helped me hold it together.

Okay.

and then there were moments where,
You know, there's a, it's kind

of a, a funny, juxtaposition and
parallel that like, in some ways

the lead up was always the worst.

So that transition coming into it.

But as soon as I got on my horse, I did
feel like I could conquer the world.

Okay.

so, and not from a, like, I'm gonna
steamroll you type way, but just like,

I just felt so at home, riding and
doing what I did and I was so proud

of my horse and loved my horse so
much that it was, that was kind of

all I needed to, to get out there.

Rupert Isaacson: Did you, were you
at the time were less successful, for

example, you know, when you made the tr
the transition to university and then

found it wasn't for you, and then you
became the sort of, you know, Jane Pike

trying this, Jane Pike trying that, people
ribbing you about that in your community.

Were you also at that point trying
affirmations in those areas of your

life and then finding it wasn't working?

Or did you sort of let it go and
how mad Drift, did you really only

use the affirmations and that sort
of thing in your competitive life?

Jane Pike: There was always a sense
of something bigger than myself.

I don't know that I was using
the affirmations at that point.

At that particular point you describe,
I was struggling with a lot of things.

I was struggling with food and
I was struggling with exercise.

And I used both of those
things to punish myself.

Mm-hmm.

And I think I, I was so.

I was in such a dark place at that time.

And I was so full of
self-loathing at that time.

And now retrospectively I can see that
I was just trying to grab onto some

semblance of control in an experience
that just felt completely out of control.

But I, I would, you know, I would
exercise obsessively for like four

hours a day after I'd worked all day.

And then I was really,
really strict with food.

And, and I can see that I had a
very disordered eating and very

dysmorphic view of my own body.

And I, that is definitely, you know,
that that's not a feature, thank

goodness of my experience anymore.

But it's, it was a very, at
that particular moment in time,

I think I was so, and you're

Rupert Isaacson: dealing
with this chronic pain?

Jane Pike: Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and pain emotionally just
of like where I was and, and just

reconciling lots of different
things that had happened in my life.

So, yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: So then you find yourself
in the Holy Land, doing, Hebrew aerobics.

Hebrew aerobics.

Yeah.

I can make that joke.

Cause I'm, and so, so I'm the rabbi
rubric make this, but at this point,

and then you, and then you fall
into yoga and you're saying, okay,

well I've been a seeker for a while.

This feels like you could
have some answers for me.

Yes.

Where does this take you?

Jane Pike: So the particular relationship
that took me to Israel ended, but I had,

I'd been there a little while and had
quite a good community there and sort of

was, went back and forth, but obviously
I wasn't allowed to stay there, because

I was foreign and didn't have the right
visa requirements and that sort of thing.

And had been doing bits and pieces there
and I'm just trying to piece together.

It feels like such a, is such a long
time ago, but I, so the bit that

kind of came up in between, gosh,
what's the order of operation here?

I've completely confused this
part of my life in my mind.

So the, at one stage I was
in Asia, so I was traveling.

I traveled quite, quite a lot.

Yeah, yeah, I left, I went back to
Asia, and I met some people in Did you,

Rupert Isaacson: did you go to
Asia looking o on the yoga trail?

Was that what took you there
or were you just traveling

Jane Pike: now following you?

I was traveling.

I was mainly traveling at that moment
in time, but the yoga thing was

definitely like strong in my mind.

And then intermittently, I was
going back to Australia at that

point, for work and I was working
and and what were you doing?

I, so as part of the health
science thing, I'd done like a

massage certifi certification.

So I did massage at a APRs,
clinic that paid quite well.

Like, cuz you got like quite a
decent amount of money for that.

Rupert Isaacson: But at this point
you've entered the healing arts?

Jane Pike: Yes.

Yeah.

So I was doing that and I knew, you
know, sort of a bit about, herbal

medicine and, and all of these sorts of
things and I, I would ride for people.

So there was like a bit of a
mishmash of things that, would

happen when I went home.

And, I'd met, someone in Thailand who
worked for the Red Cross, and he was

from Belgium and he was doing some like
local on the ground things in Belgium.

And and it ended up that we got
talking quite a lot at that stage.

It was like, I don't think I, did I
have a mobile phone at that stage.

I might have had a mobile phone,
but it was like sort of the

Hotmail Messenger type thing.

Like that was like, you had to like log
on at the same time and it was like, do

you remember that there was like an M
MSN messenger or something like that?

It was something like
that to me that only feels

Rupert Isaacson: like five minutes ago,
but I, I, I remember, remember when

mastered on silver to mastered on Yes.

The swamp.

So yeah,

Jane Pike: so that was us
chatting at that point.

And, and gosh, I'm trying to, I'm trying
to place my years and the order that I

did things in, But when I was in, so I,
when I was sort of dipping around in yoga

at home, there was a, there was a lady
that I spoke to, so my natural inclination

coming from a competitive family and
also coming from a, family, so coming

from a position where exercise was like
self punishment and self-flagellation,

and I was like using it.

And your parents were

Rupert Isaacson: competitive runners
too, so certain amount of grueling

exercise as part of the deal, right?

Jane Pike: Yeah, yeah.

It was, well, they just, like, we
we're a very active family, but I

don't know that, you know, that I used
necessarily the gifts that were bespoke

bestowed to me in the way that I do now.

But, at that point I did the types of
yoga, which was like, you just feel

like you wanna die at the end of it.

And that to me was success.

Rupert Isaacson: What
kind of yoga is that?

Jane Pike: Well, you know, you do,
like, I did Ashtanga, and like,

couldn't sort of like talk us to, for

Rupert Isaacson: those people
that dunno what Ashtanga yoga

is, talk to USGA yoga Ash.

Lemme ask you one quick question.

Yes.

Had you found, had you found the answer
to the pain in your back at this point?

Jane Pike: No, but I, I could see
that there was potential of moving

in the right direction with it.

Okay.

So I, I saw like a light for that.

Yeah.

So you felt that the

Rupert Isaacson: yoga
was strengthening you?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, so tell us about Aang

Jane Pike: Yoga.

Ashtanga Yoga comes out of, so there were
three main teachers that were students

of the main kind of yoga guru who brought
it to the west called Krishna Aria.

And, Patabi Joyce was one of those
yoga students, and he, created, he

didn't really create, but he was
the one that sort of popularized

this form of yoga called Ashtanga.

And there were two other teachers that
were descendants of that lineage of the

Christian Aria lineage and they were aen.

So some, a lot of people will be
familiar with yenga yoga, much more

structured, a lot of rules around I, ien
yoga that deals with body alignment.

And they use quite a lot of props,
like straps and blocks and like,

there's ways of, Of shaping the
body towards this particular outcome.

And the third person who's much
less known, was Mohan Ag Mohan

and his wife, who are very much
into the therapeutic side of yoga.

And so there were these three,
students that studied with him.

Patabi Joyce is from Myo in India.

There's kind of a big, movement
in mys saw towards Ashtanga.

And Ashtanga originally was, the
form of yoga that was designed

for teenage boys, basically.

So a very active, very strength-based,
very dynamic form of yoga that would

suit, a boy with a lot of testosterone,
a lot of strength, a lot of, you know, a

lot of just physical capacity to do that.

And not necessarily designed for.

Women especially, because of the types
of, breath work that it utilizes

and the type of body movement that
it utilizes has quite a strong

effect on the reproductive system.

And because women weren't in
mind when that system was around.

And so it's just a very, very physical,
yoga, you go through a set of,

postures that all form a part of a
sequence that are constantly flowing.

And you tie in the breath with that.

And so it's, because there's these set
sequences and set levels that you go

through, in order to kind of like graduate
to the next level, you, your body needs

to be able to move in particular ways.

And for me, that wasn't part of how
my body liked to move, you know, in

terms of, just my natural inclination.

And so I found it quite challenging,
but again, it fitted in quite well with

trying to make my body do something.

Rupert Isaacson: why were you attracted
to that one and not the other two times?

Why not the therapeutic type, or
why not in the very structured type?

Why this dynamic made for
18 year old boys type?

Jane Pike: Well it was popular
where I was at that moment.

And I didn't, reali didn't really realize
the lineage that it was springing from.

And initially you were in,

Rupert Isaacson: you went to my saw.

Did you, you ended

Jane Pike: up in No, I didn't.

This was in, this was at home that I,
that I was doing this and also, You

know, I really thought that in order
to be doing something good for my body,

I ha you had to really feel it, like
the no pain, no gain type philosophy.

So, it just went in line with, I, I was
just trying to escape myself ru like I

was just so, I needed to sweat it out.

I needed to push myself.

I needed to like, punish myself to
some degree, even though I wouldn't

have said that's what I was doing.

Yeah.

That's what I needed at the time.

And to think of being still just meant
that I had to meet myself and that would

probably be one of the worst things that
I could think of at that particular time.

And how

Rupert Isaacson: did you
feel it was working for you?

Just in terms of building
strength or, well, I

Jane Pike: was sore.

Like it wasn't really working for me.

I was, I had sore knees, I had sore
elbows, I had sore, you know, shoulders

because I was, there's a lot of jumping
and a lot of like, push up type motions

and a lot of, very physical things, which
for me, if you are doing it repetitively

and you're not doing it in a way where
the body's able to sustain itself,

you develop compensation patterns.

And so now it's like, oh gosh, my
right shoulder hurts because I'm

using that arm more and I'm doing
this like 50 times a session.

And so that starts to
have a, have an effect.

But the, the way out of that, was
actually following someone that had

most likely been in a similar position
to me, who was one of my main Ashtanga

teachers, and then started studying
with Mohan, who was the therapeutic.

Teacher and she came back from,
Chenai, which is where he was based,

and just started teaching this
like incredibly slow, form of yoga.

And I was like, what is this?

Like this is doing nothing.

I now need to go for like
a 50 k run if I do this.

Like, that was my mentality, you
know, it's not enough to kind of

keep me in shape or whatever it is
I was supposed to be at that time.

And so she sort of sparked a seed in
me and then from there I did some,

prodding around on the internet and
decided that I was gonna go and study

with them directly, when I was in
India, where I was gonna go to India.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: So you end up
in India and now you're studying

this therapeutic form of yoga.

Yes.

Yes.

Is your pain

Jane Pike: getting better?

So, Mohan and his wife Indra
are quite magical people.

And the first course that
I did was eight weeks.

And you go and you sit on their concrete
floor and you listen all day to them and

you do practices and they teach you the
Vaers and they teach you the everything.

And you go and have a
consultation with Indra.

And Indra is like, because she's
a woman, she doesn't get the

same accolades as her husband.

But actually she's probably
the most skilled of the two.

But she's just ag mohans
wife, if that makes sense.

But she's studied the same as him.

She's actually, she's, she's really
the magical, one of the two of them.

And she, because I was female,
she was the one that saw me.

Cuz there's quite strict customs
there in terms of who sees who.

So we go into the room and she asks
me to, she does like a, gets me to

move in a couple of different ways.

And, and their approach is they
give you a personal practice.

So they actually give you the postures
to do based on your mind and your body.

Which is a first for me because everything
else had been generic up until that point.

So they designed postures for you,
they designed a sequence for you.

And, I went in, I can
remember it really clearly.

I went into her little room and
she is like, for the time you are

here, you're only doing what I say.

You're only doing these postures.

Because I was doing my Ashtanga
Pro practice in the morning.

And then going to them, you see this
is the level of my addiction actually.

Like, I was like, I was doing something
that I thought would like keep me

strong and fear and then I was gonna
go and do the therapeutic yoga,

which was like the nice thing on the
side that I could tell other people.

And she was like, no, no, no, you
you, you are not doing that anymore.

You're not doing that.

And that was like a crisis
of, for me, for a month.

I, I did do what she said
cuz I was like, I'm here.

It feels very disrespectful to not do.

What she is asking if
I'm gonna be in this.

But I had a real moment with that,
that was like the beginning, I think

of breaking, it was basically like an
alcoholic arriving and them saying, you're

not drinking for the next eight weeks.

And you're like, what?

Like that, that's how it felt like I
was, that's how I imagined it would feel.

It's like I was so addicted to that
as a way of like keeping my mind

in a, in a container, that I could
manage that to think about letting

that go was actually terrifying.

Rupert Isaacson: And so you felt that
the Ashtanga was basically the keeping

the lid on your, wobbly mental health and
that if you were to let that go, you might

wobble outside the jar sort of thing?

Jane Pike: Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and also beyond that, I think that,
and I, I don't know, sorry, this is

going a little bit outside the REIT of
what your podcast is about, isn't it?

But it's,

Rupert Isaacson: no, not at all.

It's, it's, it's how we get,
it's how we get, it's how we

get to self-actualization.

Jane Pike: Yeah.

It's interesting as well.

I think that for me, and the reason
that I talk about this, well, I have no

shame around it, but also I think that
a lot of, I was gonna say women, but I

think a lot of people will go through
this, where, the way that I controlled

my life was through controlling my body.

And so my.

Thought processes around controlling
my body at that moment in time

was with punishing exercise.

And so if I let that go, I thought that
would mean a, I would start looking

a certain way, which was, again, I
didn't even really have ideas about,

like, I didn't, it's, it's funny to
reflect on because it wasn't so much

that I was like judging people's body
shapes, but for me it was just control.

Like, it was like I just was
aiming to look a certain way

in order to stay controlled.

And that involved, I guess I
had so much adrenaline crossing

through my system, that that was
kind of burning that up as well.

And if it wasn't being burned up, then
I had to deal with it in other ways.

Right.

But I found interestingly that, because
I am a good student and I do do what

I'm told, if I, into a certain extent at
that moment in time, that I followed the

practice, I was like, well, I'm here.

And I, it was actually so beautiful,
aside from I would get up in the

morning, and for those of you who've
been to India, it's like this very,

it's a mishmash of different things.

So on the one hand, you'd have the
call to prayer that's very, very

beautiful, like so, so beautiful.

I'm up before the sun.

It's, I've, I've laid
out my little yoga mat.

I'm on my little concrete floor.

My, my place is super basic.

You know, there's no toilet,
no anything like that.

I've got the colder
prayer, the air is warm.

I'm like, this feels lush.

And then all of a sudden someone
starts like hoking outside my window,

like, like clearing your throat.

And like, and you know, like
the abolitions begin, you're

like, what a j this is India.

Right?

Like the juxtaposition between
this is the most sublime thing

that's ever happened to me.

And then all of a sudden someone starts
like, just literally like throwing up.

Rupert Isaacson: Take your
shit right outside your window.

Yeah,

Jane Pike: exactly.

You're like, well, right in the eye.

Back to reality.

Back to reality.

And so that was, and what I noticed
over the course of six weeks was

with this very, very, very soft and
gentle practice, everything started

to shift for me, at that moment.

And so that was a really huge, transition.

And I kind of dedicated myself to
them for a long period of time.

How long, years.

Like I studied with them for years
and I did the practice for years.

And I, I thought

Rupert Isaacson: So you would
say Indra all I want to do what?

So it's Mohan and Indra.

Mohan.

Mohan Mohan is the, is the family name?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They were, were they're still practice.

The, the Mohans were
your mentors basically?

Yes.

Yeah.

But for how long?

For like a decade.

For like five years.

Jane Pike: For, yeah.

A decade.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

And at that stage as well, like, I
really, I, and, and I think this suited

me because it meant that I didn't have
to show up in life for other things that

were challenging to me at that moment.

I thought I just wanted to go and be
in a cave, and I was just gonna be that

person that like, meditated and did yoga
and I just was going to get enlightened.

That was like my idea.

I was like, yeah, I'm just,
that's what I'm gonna do.

I'm gonna like, check out.

I'm just gonna do this.

I'm gonna be in whatever way I need to
be in life, as much as I need to be, and

then I'm just going to do this thing.

I'm just gonna be by
myself and do the thing.

And I think that, again, retrospectively,
that was very convenient.

Because it, you know, relationships
are hard and like showing up

in the world notice is hard.

Yeah.

Really.

And, and if you can, like, if you can
be like, wow, maybe actually the idea is

that you should just like, be in a cave
and like, and secrete yourself away.

Like, was, that was quite a attractive,
idea at that moment because, and

Rupert Isaacson: was that
promoted by the, the mohans?

Was that more your, your own idea
that that was what you had to do?

Jane Pike: They were very much, not
necessarily in overt ways, because I

don't wanna seek to represent them at all.

They're, they're very encouraging and
will create a supportive framework

around whatever your life is showing.

Okay.

But they're ultimately as a practice, you
know, like they're aiming to bring the

mind towards one pointed focus, and that
is about controlling earthly desires.

Okay.

Right.

So, leaving the

Rupert Isaacson: senses behind,
leaving the body behind Yes.

The mind.

Yeah.

Transcendent everyth.

Jane Pike: Yeah.

So, and they're, you know, for instance,
if I just remember hearing, him talk

one day and, that when he traveled, he
didn't go looking around at things, he

would go back to his room and meditate.

And I remember thinking, wow,
like, that's interesting, isn't it?

Like to not be interested in what's
going on around you in a place that

you've never been before, but instead
to just do the work that you came for

and then just go back and meditate was
kind of like jarring thought for me.

And that, you know, relationship
has a purpose for recreation.

And then, you know, beyond that, it's
like, not that they weren't very loving

towards each other, but the, they,
they understood that their ultimate

purpose was to unite with the divine.

And that was.

That was bigger than what either
of them were individually or

what their relationship was.

And so, you know, there are a lot of
beautiful things that came out of that

experience for me and a lot of problematic
things, that came out of that for me.

I, I won't speak for them or their
lineage, but for me from a, you

know, cultural perspective and from
the perspective of who I understand

myself to be now and who I understand
myself to have always been, but just

didn't really recognize, because, so

Rupert Isaacson: at, at a certain
point, did you become like an

instructor you were leading?

Jane Pike: Yeah.

Yeah.

I was hard out teaching.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

You, you are you like I
did all of the things.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

Yeah.

Being flown around the world, teaching
wealthy Chinese businessman type thing.

Yoga or,

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------

Jane Pike: yeah.

I did work in China for food in Hong
Kong and like, went to China and I,

I was teaching all over the place.

I was in Bali.

I was, going to set up retreat
centers and yoga centers.

So this is success.

Rupert Isaacson: I mean, you've
now found this, this thing with

this, this therapeutic yoga.

I presume it's making you
feel better to some degree.

It must be making other
people feel better.

Jane Pike: That's the irony, isn't it?

It gave me a focus.

I don't know that it made me feel better.

Okay.

It gave me a focus.

And, and I think that that
was a relief having been.

Swimming around in this un, you know,
what am I gonna do with my life thing

all of a sudden, like I was something
that I could attach something to.

You're good at it.

Rupert Isaacson: People
want you, you're marketable.

Yeah.

You've mastered it.

If you found mastery of something

Jane Pike: Yeah.

Enough to be able to impart

Rupert Isaacson: some stuff.

To where are the horses in this?

Have they gone completely
by the by at this point?

Jane Pike: They have at this point, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: Are you
missing them somehow?

Yes.

I Are you not thinking about them?

Jane Pike: Yeah.

No, I am missing them.

Yeah.

I am missing them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I, and I had like, you know, there's,
I had crises of, of sorts again, because

I was traveling quite extensively and I
was doing other work in between there.

But you know, you see a lot of
people, in Bali for instance,

I saw people that were expats.

And there's like an expat community, and I
just remember feeling deeply uncomfortable

with the situation in that they're,
they're very affluent in the country

that they're, they've arrived in because
obviously the currency that they have come

with is worth a lot more than the currency
they're playing with in that moment.

They all have housekeepers and there's
just this like residue of colonialism

and, hierarchical living that
really, really made me uncomfortable.

And, and the.

Yoga community in those places is
very much a part of that because

a lot of the reason why people go
there in the first place is to seek

some form of wellness, and wellness
solutions and wellness retreats.

And there's a lot of people that have
set up things there, that are kind of

doing so under this pseudo idea that
they're, you know, helping humanity.

But actually what I saw was
just like, well, this is just a

convenient, I don't know, it just
really didn't sit well with me.

And you, and you saw that in a, in
a few different places that kind

of, oh, we're helping out here.

But actually it's like, no, you're under
really good wicket and you are doing

so at the expense of some local people.

And it just is just, was weird to me.

Yeah, but, and so I, I, I, I al I always
had this thought of like, this can't be

the end point because I watched, I just,
I remember sitting in a cafe and I like

saw a group of, men come in that were
all in their little, like, you know,

hos or whatever.

I was gonna

Rupert Isaacson: say
seven dwarves outfits.

I'm, I'm, I'm on there.

Jane Pike: Like, they're in go.

It's like there's a, there's a look.

And I, I, and I looked at them
and I thought, I can't be that.

I just can't end up like that.

Like I can't be that.

And, and I thought at some
point when you've stayed away

too long, you can't go back.

You know, because you've either
absented yourself from your culture

or financially you just can't go back
because now you're used to living

in India and everything is so cheap.

And, and so I I, I always had this idea
of this was temporary, but I wasn't quite

sure where things were gonna lead next.

Rupert Isaacson: so where did they lead
next and what was the transition point?

Jane Pike: So the transition point was,

there are a few things that happened.

Cuz this is sort of like a few, you
know, over a, the course of many years,

the, I was in Europe for a period
and I went to see my friend who was

the Red Cross worker that I mentioned.

Oh, the Israeli

Rupert Isaacson: guy previously?

Yeah.

No,

Jane Pike: the Belgian guy.

Belgian, yeah.

Yeah.

And there were some local projects that
they were involved with, that I was just

volunteering at and helping out with.

And then around that time, The tsunami
happened, it was like 2000 and, 2004.

And so there were all people getting
dispatched over there initially

to Thailand, then to Sri Lanka.

And, Chennai where I'd been studying
in India was marginally affected

like Southern India, but not so
badly, as the, as the other places.

And I had the opportunity to go.

And I'd already been doing, different
pieces of work, that were like

aid humanitarian related, projects,
whenever I could around the place,

both personally and then kind
of hooking in with other groups.

And so I went, and decided
to be a part of the, like,

dispatch that went to Sri Lanka.

and so shortly after that happened,
that's where I arrived and was

there for the next 12 months.

Also, and I think that that was a real
sort of turning point for me as well,

where I was like, I need something.

I, I, I just need to figure myself out.

Like I really need to figure myself out.

And I went back to New Zealand after that.

That's where I was

Rupert Isaacson: like, okay, I'll, oh,
hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

You must have done something
quite interesting down there.

And she like, what did you do?

In the aftermath of the tsunami.

Can't just gloss over that.

Come

Jane Pike: on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well there were sort of
different, okay, that's enough.

Let's move on.

Yeah, there were different parts to it.

The first part was, anyone who's done
any sort of aid work and, and I had

been doing things prior, so it wasn't
sort of my first foray, but the,

there's a huge amount of corruption
in Asia and in, you know, Indian

subcontinent and all around there.

And I'd been traveling and working
all around there, so I was kind

of used to the use of the game.

But after the, tsunami kind of hit
new levels, especially, especially

with the president of Sri Lanka,
who was, female at that time.

I'm not quite sure who it is now, but
she was, there was a huge outpouring

of public donations, because, I mean,
this is one of the first times really

I think, where something to that scale
had been caught on camera, for the

mainstream to be able to experience.

And so, you know, people holidaying
had caught on their mobile phones

and it was all over the, the
news and it was so shocking.

Like it was, it was really, really
so shocking that, it moved people

to give money in ways that they
hadn't really given money before.

And so, of course this goes to the
powers that be initially in the country.

That doesn't go to the
people that who need it.

It goes to the people who you hope
are going to equitably distribute it.

And in Sri Lanka, that
definitely wasn't the case.

So, she profited very handsomely
and fabulously off people's,

donations in that first instance.

And so, When, when you work or are
with a organization that are, that

have a huge administrative background,
there is also limitations in what

you can do because everything has
to go through, process of course.

So, how, how publicly,
good this is to talk about.

But anyway, so that was the first part
of it was with, with the organization.

Then what we decided was that we
would come back independently.

And we thought, well, you know,
if we had like you and a small

Rupert Isaacson: group

Jane Pike: of people there, yes.

Yeah.

If we came back and we independently
raised money and we had like thousands

of dollars in our own bank accounts
that were, we just directly like

went in and just helped people out.

We could do something faster than
we could if we have to wait for

this whole process to happen.

And so, the person I was with, he
was a, a very skilled photographer.

I had sort of other skills that were
going on and the other thing that

we did at that point in time was,
my main role was I worked with the,

the children quite a lot and it was
very much making it up as you go.

So I could see that, the kids
were quite traumatized but

also desperate to be children.

And so I said to them, cuz one of the
things I was really aware of was the.

Sort of white savior thing that
happens or you create that mentality

where, you are handing out money and
it's a very disempowering situation

for people, especially individuals,
you know, with their own pride

and their own, stuff going on.

And so with the children, I thought,
well, how can we make it so that they feel

like they're actually raising their own
money, even if it's not actually the case?

Like, so that there's like a
sentiment that they have apart

in what they're receiving.

And so, I said, look, we've got
a, art, a, a museum sort of art

gallery, a couple of different
art galleries that are interested

in, auctioning off your pictures.

Cuz I know that you do really good art.

You've been drawing with me and
you do really good pictures.

So I do wanna draw some pictures for me.

And so they started producing this artwork
that was just like wild, like, and I

didn't ask them to draw about the tsunami.

I just said, you can
draw whatever you want.

Like, it doesn't, doesn't matter.

And they drew these like big black waves
with like teeth coming out of them and

like bodies floating on top of the water
and like, People hanging off trees and

like, basically like whatever was in
their subconscious, these little kids

that were just like la la la would come
out with these like dark pictures of

like death and destruction and like
metaphorical representations of the wave.

And I was like, oh, wow.

That's lovely.

That's lovely.

Thank you.

Just be like, oh, like
where am I gonna take this?

Like it was, it was, it was a thing.

And so I collected all of their
artwork and I said, thank you.

We're gonna take it.

And there, there's people, you know,
in places that might be able to help

us right now that are gonna auction
off your work and then we're gonna

come back and, and, and help you.

And that's kind of, and
that's kind of what we did.

And we also had prints and
things that we made from there.

And we were just hard out
fundraising when we got home.

And then we went back directly
with the money in our bank accounts

and just worked as nobodies.

But already knew kind of the
ins and outs of what was needed

and, and where to put the money.

So we just picked a few, we
picked a village basically, and

we picked families that we thought
we could most influence and help.

And, and then we just,
did what we could there.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: How didn't
you keep doing that and what

happened to the yoga in between?

Jane Pike: Yoga, I was just practicing
myself, but I wasn't, that, that was kind

of the core of my work was being there.

I mean, you can live very, very simply
in places like that on next to nothing.

Rupert Isaacson: So.

Right.

So you're doing this and you're
helping rebuild communities there.

Mm-hmm.

With money that you've raised, directly.

What takes you away from that?

Jane Pike: It came to a natural
conclusion, I think, where you realize

the end of your capacity, well,
a, you run out of money and b you

get to the end of your usefulness.

I think there's like a natural evolution
of chapters that people go through in

those experiences where you realize like,
now something bigger needs to happen.

And also just for myself, I had started
to get to that place where I was like,

I, I have to make a decision about,
I have to be a grown up basically.

Like what's, what can I, I I
wanted to have roots a little bit.

Like I wanted to, to find
a place where I could.

You've been traveling for a while by now?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'd been traveling for a long time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And a lot of it with a sort
of lost feeling inside.

And so I was like, I think I'm
gonna go back to New Zealand and

and I'm just gonna land there.

The landscape always felt really good
to me there or here, and I never, you

know, there's aspects of Australia,
which are always gonna be a part of

me, which actually has to do with
the landscape as well, and smells and

animals and those sorts of things.

But I never really, wanted to stay.

I knew that wasn't the
place that I was gonna stay.

And I think actually, you know, I have
a nomadic tendency anyway that perhaps I

struggled to reconcile for a long time.

But yeah.

So

Rupert Isaacson: back, so you,
you end up back in New Zealand.

Yeah.

You've, you've followed
healing, you've followed, yeah.

You've become, you've achieved a certain
mastery in a healing form of yoga.

You've then taken that healing into social
healing with advocacy and, rebuilding

of communities up to the tsunami.

And this is all pretty significant work.

And then you arrive as Jane
Pike again in New Zealand.

What do you do then?

Jane Pike: at first I was writing,
at first I was writing, I,

well, I had two things going on.

I was just working in a shop,
like just to have money.

And, the shop that was, it
was a retail shop selling like

different clothes and other things.

And so I was sitting there and

Rupert Isaacson: Did that
feel a little surreal after?

Yeah,

Jane Pike: it was very surreal.

It was very, very surreal.

But it was kind of welcome
at the same time because I, I

just, Was I needed to regroup.

Like to put stable, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It had been a lot.

And, and so the, it was something where
I got like a regular amount of income

that was like very, very little and,
but it was enough to kind of like pay

rent and eat and do all the things.

And then I started to, to write, because
at that point, I wanted to write a book.

And also I, it sounds like I was just
dropping things in, but I'm not quite

sure how they, how they happened.

I did have a column, I had like a column
in a couple of newspapers at one point

in time, that I was writing for, and I'd
managed to kind of whe on my way in there.

So you arrived back,

Rupert Isaacson: started
freelancing a bit?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Had you been dabbling and
writing through this whole time?

Like, I just pitched myself.

Oh, really?

But you had, you always
sort of wanted to write?

Jane Pike: I always considered,
I always loved writing.

Yeah.

Words were always something
that I loved doing.

And so I thought, initially I wanted
to write a children's book, but I,

I don't know, I just, I always rose.

So that seemed like, I mean, that's
where the journalism came from, right?

Like that's where,

Rupert Isaacson: and what would you,
writing, you writing what, what, what

columns are you writing for these papers?

Stuff from what you've been doing.

Jane Pike: Yeah, so at one point
I won a competition, and it was.

And then afterwards I said, oh,
actually we kind of like your work.

Would you come

Rupert Isaacson: on as a regular?

We've had like, good responses to the work
and it was, it was about, it was fashion.

It was like a fashion, of course, it was
after the human rights and I won a, I won

a competition, to be like the reporter,
if you like, over a fashion week.

And so I did that and then
that stuff came out of that.

But it was such, I ended up
quitting because it was such a,

like wildly misogynistic, place.

It was really stuck in the dark ages.

That actually, that's probably one of
my proudest moments where I like quit on

principle of something and then later on,
and they were really assholes about it.

And then later on, they begged for me
to come back and I got to say no again,

which was like, you know, this beautiful
moment in my life actually, you have a,

a little plaque on the wall, so Yeah.

No, to the misogynous.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So now you've fallen into writing.

Is it all fashion or do you
start to go writing in retail?

Yeah, that's right.

Fashion and retail.

It, so that was just literally
for bill paying practices and

then behind the scenes I was,
playing with fiction writing.

Yeah.

And so the idea was that I was
going to write my own thing, mm-hmm.

And just.

Be single and, and have enough
money to get by so that I could do

that and just be free basically.

How long did that last?

Not very long.

I met my husbands fairly soon after that.

So then how, how does it go
from your, you're back from

this significance adventure.

Yeah.

You, you've learned these skills, but
now you appear to have abandoned them.

You, you're, you've gone
a whole new direction.

You're writing now, you're doing
bill paying fashion and retail stuff.

You're, you're writing, how does, how
do you go from that to running this

really successful, interesting online
equestrian and nervous system thing?

Yeah.

How does it happen?

So being back in New Zealand, I,
I did start to sort of play in the

horse world again, although I didn't
have my own horse to start with.

And then when I met my husband, he, I
was on the north island at that point.

He was on the south island.

And, I ended up moving down here and he,
and we had some land together down here.

And so, he said, do you wanna get a horse?

And I said, I don't think you
understand what that means.

And he was like, oh, yes, so
do, and I was like, no, no.

Like if I ha if I have horses, I horse
like, I'm like, I, I'm not a casual horse.

I'm like, I, so it's either I'm in
or I, and he is like, oh, no, no, no.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no.

I don't know that you,
you really understand.

And so clearly he didn't
because we got a horse.

And then that's led to
me to where I am now.

So, but it was, it was beautiful, you
know, in that like, this is, I guess where

all of the different seeds start to merge.

And the initial idea for it was
that, I thought, okay, there are

a lot of people struggling with,
physical things to do with writing.

And, with my background in like
therapeutic yoga and like body

stuff, I, dabbled with starting to
help people from that perspective.

And then it became apparent to me
through our conversations that a lot

of what people were struggling with
was like confidence and anxiety issues.

And, and I had things to say about
that, that were helpful to people, but

they, I had never considered that to be
something that would be like, it was so

natural to me to talk about that stuff.

And it was so.

In me to talk about it, that it wasn't
anything that I considered to be a skill.

Mm-hmm.

Until I recognize that, oh, maybe I
do have something to say that people

would, would like to hear about.

And so what mainly started was I started
a Facebook page, and this was kind of

in the early days of Facebook where I
just blogged like I wrote every day.

And I blogged about the things that
to do with the mind and emotions

and the body from the perspective
of all the things that I've been

studying and learning about.

And people were really interested in it.

like I started to have a
really solid following.

I never sold anything for like years.

I literally just wrote and put
lots of free stuff out there.

I just shared what I knew.

And I, and I started to get a, a bit
of a following off the back of that.

And I'd always studied, like, it was in
the meantime I was studying like loads

of different, like, mental skills and,
and you know, like I've studied, I've

done masters in hypnotherapy and like,
and like loads, loads of different

things, different psycho psychology
studies and, Lots of different things

kind of running in the background.

I actually started another university
course in violence and trauma that

when I got back from, the tsunami,
how to cause it or how to recover

from it, how to recover from it.

But then I realized that, actually
just at the time, that is something

that I'd wished I'd continued on with.

But being in the position I was at the
time, I was one of the few people that was

sort of working full-time and trying to
study full-time and I just couldn't do it.

I had no support from outside, so it was
like I just, I can't actually, live and,

and eat and, and do this at the same time.

So that, that fell away at that point.

And it really did evolve from
there when, when I had my first

child, Flynn, so he's 12 this year.

That was kind of the, the seed of like,
like I think part of partially it was the

seed of frustration that bore the actual
business in its form that it is now in

terms of like, I've lost my autonomy.

You know, my partner is working really,
really long hours and is way a lot, and

I'm completely reliant on other people
to look after my baby if I wanna do

anything that's like separate to me.

So what can I do that will like, Feed this
sort of intellectual energy that I have

and creating Just by now, you're living
in a remote part of the south island?

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And, having gone from this completely
cosmopolitan life, now you are Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Down there.

Yeah.

In but isolated.

Yeah.

And so that's how it started.

I, I started putting together like
little packages for, for well writing

initially, like continuing on with
the blog that I'd started and then

putting together little packages.

And, at that stage, like anything
internet wise was a very new endeavor.

Like now memberships and stuff like
that are so common that everyone

has a membership at that point.

I remember talking to a software
person, him not even knowing

what I was talking about.

He's like, oh, that's not a thing.

You can't do that.

It'll be, that would be like 20
million to like, create that.

And I was like, oh, I have no money.

Excellent.

So, so everything started with zero money.

Like I had no, no money.

I had to do it all myself.

If I wanted to figure it out,
I needed to learn it and, or it

needed to cost like only $5 and
it was basically like my budget.

And so I did, yeah, I'm,
I'm sort of studying in the

background all the way through.

I'm studying to get like a small amount
of people to the point where, The

first thing I offered was a bootcamp.

I called it a bootcamp and it went for
six months and I gave people content

like at the start of each month.

That was, that was specifically
focusing on like confidence type things.

And I remember thinking, oh my God,
I am like, this is so much money.

I think I charged them like a
hundred dollars each, and there

was maybe 15 people in it.

And I was like, this, I've
made it like this is it.

I've got like something
coming in that just felt like

this phenomenal achievement.

And there was another really kind
of cataclysmic moment where, all the

way through I've had to teach myself.

So I've always been doing like business
courses or I'd look for someone that

was doing something similar, in terms of
a format that I thought was good, even

if it was a completely unrelated topic.

And I just studied their thing
to like look at their format.

And so at one point I signed up for
this business course and it was $800.

It was 800 New Zealand dollars, which
for me was like, this is outrageous.

Like, and I didn't tell anyone.

I didn't tell my husband.

I just put it on the credit card, put it
on my credit card, and I was like, okay,

I'm gonna put it on the credit card.

And then, and because I've done
this so deceitfully, I have to

make it back by the end of it.

Like I have to make it back like that.

There's no choice about that.

And so, within the six weeks
I did, I did, I created two.

Different courses off the back of
that one, which was COMPETIT focused

and one which was confidence focused.

And then that kind of led me
to the membership, just through

realizing what different people
needed at different moments.

So yeah.

Now, confident Rider and Joy Ride
are these known things and, you've

got a following all over the world.

What would you say now it is that you do
an offer, if you were to put it in your,

not even the elevator pitch, but if you
are, if you were to say more or less in

a nutshell what it is you give people
through this online, thing involving

their nervous system now, what is it?

So it's a movement based program
and we are ultimately looking to

create nervous system, adaptability.

So we're interested in, getting people
into a position and a place where if

we, we think of it technically, their
brain and body are responding accurately

to what's going on in their life.

And for lots of people, they're
not responding accurately.

They're either in Groundhog Day
situations, they're finding themselves

overreacting or underreacting.

And that, That shows up in writing,
that shows up in life, that shows up

mentally, physically, and emotionally.

And so, I look at biomechanics, but
I look at it from a nervous system

perspective, which is, which is
quite a different lens to view it

from than traditional biomechanics.

We look at mindset and also,
emotions within the template that

the nervous system creates as well.

But I think that there's a slightly
different flavor, also to what I offered

that perhaps I haven't been so vocal
about in the beginning, in that, I'm,

I'm really fascinated by the body and I
have so much reverence and respect for

science and, everything that it offers us
and have, you know, gone deeply down that

rabbit hole and will continue to myself.

However, there also has to be room
for the mystical and the magical.

And I think that a lot of our
conversations, while they're rooted

in that scientific understanding, also
allow space for, just what it means to

be human and what it means to be, you
know, a part of the world that we're

in and the landscape that we're in.

And, and to recognize that there is
something bigger than us at play.

So, you know, it's, it's
all of those things.

Does that make sense?

This, this sounds like it goes
far beyond helping people out with

their confidence on horseback.

Yeah, the horses are such a gift in that
they're, well firstly they give people

a reason to look at things that might
not be, comfortable, acceptable, quote

unquote, or okay to look at without them.

So for instance, you know, people
may well recognize that they struggle

with anxiety generally, or they're
feeling like, gosh, is this kind of

it as far as their life is concerned?

But they don't give themselves
permission to really look at those

things in isolation or they wouldn't
go to someone to talk about them

because that would be just kind of
not something that they would ever do.

But if it relates to their riding or
they can use their horse as like the

thing outside of themselves, which is
the conversation, Kickstarter, then it

takes the pressure off them, it takes the
spotlight off them, and it just provides

a way in to have bigger conversations
that, that just feel more possible.

What would you say?

That's what my experience has been.

Yeah.

What would you say is the prevalent
thing about the nervous system in

the brain that you find yourself
now helping people with the most?

So I think that one of the gifts of the.

The time that we're in is that
this nervous system awareness,

is becoming much more mainstream.

That it is, it's not uncommon, especially
in the world that you are moving in and

the world that I move in for people to
have some kind of understanding about

the nervous system, whereas that used
to be like 10 or 20 years ago, like

such a foreign idea to talk about.

And I think that just in science
in general, it's really like

there's been huge leaps and, and
evolutions in understanding that.

And so for me, what my work involves,
which is not something that I see commonly

talked about and or offered is this
understanding, of the different motor

reflex patterns that we move through
when we're in the fight flight response.

And so if we consider, as we go into
our sympathetic system, there are

these templates, if you like, that the
body utilizers in order to fulfill the

function of that nervous system state.

So fight, flight, freeze.

And there's a couple of different
statements say just for those,

for those people who are not,
move, Nervous system people.

The sympathetic nervous system
is the fight, flight, freeze,

fight, flight nervous system.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So go on.

Yeah.

So within, within the fight flight
nervous system, there are these different,

reflex patterns, which are essentially
structural or movement patterns.

That means that for any of us who move
into a fight response for any of us

that move into a flight response or a
freeze response, there is a way that

your body, moves itself a way that your
body orients itself from the inside

out, that is observable and, and,
discernible in that like if, if RU or

myself, whereas in a fight I can, I
would be able to observe that by the

way the structure of the body moves.

So there's a template, that that creates.

And so alongside that physical
template, and again, it, it, we

do that in order to maximize the
purpose of that particular, state.

So for fight, I'm really wanting
to maximize my force for flea.

I'm wanting to maximize my acceleration,
and so the body orients itself in

order to fulfill that function.

And this has been such a revelation
to me because a lot of, what we see

as dysfunction disease, disharmony in
the body is the body operating more

often than not from one of these.

Sympathetic patterns from one
of these fight flight patterns.

And the brain in and of itself, for a
number of different reasons, has lost

the capacity to move fluently between
the different nervous system states,

which is essentially, if I am, a human
with adaptability and who isn't stuck

on a particular channel, I'm able to
flip in between any of the states,

both fight, flight and parasympathetic.

So parasympathetic is like just
optimal mode functioning, sort

of normal, everyday functioning,
being okay, Bethany being okay.

And the survival nervous system
is really only, designed for me

being under physiological threat.

So, for most of us, hopefully, who
aren't in a position where we're

under physiological threat in the
day-to-day, there is no reason for us

to be in our sympathetic nervous system.

But many of us are living there
and that creates different,

problems for us on every level.

So would you say, would
you say that, yeah.

Would you say that the majority of
people that you find that you're

working with, despite the comfort of
Western life, the physical comforts

of Western life, are in fact for a
multitude of reasons, basically living

in their fight flight nervous systems?

Yes.

I would say that even when there is no
elephant coming at them, Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

There's like a, you know, a, a meme
that goes around saying, you know,

I want my, my nervous system to my
fight flight nervous system to kick

on in response to the tiger not
reading the email sort of thing.

And it's like, it's, it's true, right?

Like, I think Why do you think,
why do you think we're, we're

all living in this fight flight
freeze when we're not in war zone?

Because we have become 50 steps removed
from our environment, we're no longer

getting the amount of movement, novelty or
sensory feedback that we would if we were

part of a hunter gatherer type setting.

And that starts to intimately
affect how our nervous system

is able to function and operate.

So basically we're stressed because we're
not living in the natural environment

that our organism is programmed for.

Yeah.

It's what has happened now is that,
meeting our life needs and meeting

our survival needs is a cognitive
choice rather than a physical reality.

So if I was part of a, a living
situation where I was required to

be in the world, and that that meant
that I had to move, so I had to look

after the people in my community.

I had to go out and search for my
food, I had to tend to my shelter.

I had to like be in my environment
as part of that reciprocal economy.

I'm always moving, I'm
always my sensory system.

My sensory nervous system is
always getting stimulated.

I'm always encountering novelty, which
means that, my brain is always receiving

information about my current reality.

And now we're in a situation where
movement has become a choice.

And we are no longer required to be in
the world, should we choose not to be.

And so the amount, I mean, we could sit in
our, sit in our rooms and order Uber each.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

So that's the example that I use.

You know, like I can, I can be in
this office, I can order food, I can

ring someone to come and fix the roof.

I can get on Facebook and I could
essentially sit in my chair.

Perhaps I wouldn't be thriving,
but I could stay here for

decades and still live.

That's completely possible.

And so now, if we think of
it, do the lesson to that.

Yeah.

Well, the, the, it's,
it's even more than that.

It's like, if we use the example of a
traumatic situation, if I go out and

ride my horse or I just go out into the
world and something happens to me that

I register as upsetting to the point
where I might label it as traumatic.

If I sit in my office essentially,
In order for that experience to

have context in order for my brain
to be able to contextualize it.

As that happened yesterday, or
that happened this morning, or that

happened last year, I need to be
constantly uploading new information.

I need to be constantly in the world.

My sensory system needs to be bringing
in new information to my brain.

So my brain is not prioritizing or
sitting front and center that experience.

It's because I'm, I'm
required to be out there.

And so when that happens,
things get contextualized.

It's like I had that kind of shitty
experience with that happen last year.

Now what happens is that we
have this unpleasant event.

We come and sit wherever it is, we
are in our home and we don't go out,

we don't engage our, our sensory
system isn't getting stimulated.

We're not moving in novel ways.

And so it becomes the dominant
process for the brain.

It becomes the dominant pattern
that isn't being challenged by

any other information coming in.

The, so basically the, the trauma
doesn't get massaged out of us.

We don't, we don't.

We don't.

Is that what you're saying?

That, that, that this, I'm gonna go
back to this novel movement thing.

Cause it, yeah.

It's a novel thing to hear.

It's still a novel term to me.

Novel movement.

I think.

I think listeners would like
to have that explained to them.

Jane Pike: Yeah.

But basically these different form, are
you saying that these different forms

of movement that we would encounter
in a natural situation where we've

gotta walk or climb, we gotta swim,
we gotta bump against the trees,

we gotta dig, we gotta, whatever.

Give us a certain input through
the nervous system that assuages,

quote unquote traumatic events
and then leads us to resilience.

And then if we don't have that, we kind of
get stuck in those unpleasant experiences.

Is that basically what you're driving?

Yeah.

Is, is it alright for me to
give a little background to it?

Please.

I think it's, without it, it's a
little more difficult to understand.

If you think of it in very simplistic
terms, the brain is always looking

to answer the question, are we safe?

That's the baseline of, of any
type of conversation that the brain

is having with the environment.

And where relational creatures, meaning
we're always looking to assess what it

is, how it is we fit in this situation,
in any situation that we come into.

So the way that we do that is
through sensory information.

Sensory information comes into the brain.

We have 19 different sensors that
we're constantly feeling into the

environment with, and it's coming
into this place in our brain called

the reticular activating system.

And the reticular activating
system is using that information to

answer that question, are we safe?

The answer is either
yes, no, or maybe right?

So if it's yes, then what gets
sent out is a motor pattern, which

is a movement pattern, right?

So sensory in motor pattern
out movement, pattern out.

That motor pattern can either
be a parasympathetic pattern

or a sympathetic pattern.

It's either one of those two things.

If the brain says, yes, you are safe,
then we create a new pattern that is

based on matching the circumstance.

So I create a whole new response based on
what it is that I'm in, relationship with.

And that's something I haven't experienced
before because it's not a reflex, right?

It's a new pattern that the brain creates.

When I am, when the answer is no,
then the brain chooses which of these

reflex states are we gonna choose?

Are we gonna put 'em in fight?

Are we gonna put 'em in flight?

Are we gonna put 'em
in freeze or collapse?

Those, that's the
template that it chooses.

If it's maybe the brain always
errs on the side of caution.

And so we go into the sympathetic system,
right, just as a, just in case policy.

So that's it.

Sensory information comes in, a
movement pattern gets set out.

The movement pattern is either
parasympathetic or sympathetic.

That's, that's the sort
of the basis of it.

So in order for our sensory system
to stay alive and remembering the

sensory system is what the brain
needs to make accurate decisions

about the situation that it's in.

In order for the sensory system to
be alive, it needs to be constantly

stimulated and it gets constantly
stimulated through interactions

with different experiences
that capture our attention.

We're always looking to be efficient.

So basically the brains, as soon
as something is no longer novel,

it creates a pattern for it.

It creates an understanding for it,
so it doesn't constantly have to

process what it is that's going on.

And so novelty is what keeps our
sensory nervous system alive.

Now, if you're constantly engaging
in your environment, it's constantly

novel because it's constantly changing.

If you're constantly putting
change, the wind changes,

the ground underfoot changes.

Yeah.

Nothing is ever the same, even if
you're treading the same path every day.

Got it.

It could be hard depending if it's right.

Yeah, exactly.

And so, yeah, and, and if you put
your awareness on different parts

of your body as you go through the
world as well, that that's changing.

Like, because your body's
in constant change.

And so what we have in traditional
societies is a setup where, where,

where, where our nervous system
is supported for optimal function.

And so when we get into modern day living,
what we have now is if you ask any adult

that, you know, I will safely say this.

The majority of them, I would say perhaps
10% will fall outside this window, will

be able to tell you exactly what they
do and how they do it over a given week.

Like, they'll get up on Monday and maybe
they'll go to the gym and then they'll

go to go to work, and then they'll eat
this lunch, and then they'll come home.

They'll be like a predictable set
of ways that they move their body.

And most of the time they'll do that
with headphones on, or they'll do

that with some form of distraction.

So they're not even really present
with what it is that they're

doing in their environment.

And so the brain has already
recognized this is no longer

novel, like there's no new sensory
information coming in through this.

And so we get stuck in these sort of
set patterns which start to become

predictable to the brain, and it's
not being stimulated in any way.

And then as well, because of modern
living, what happens as we enter

our fight flight nervous system is
the sensory system gets turned off.

And so, and the reason
for that is protective.

So if someone punches me in the
face, I don't wanna feel all the

feelings because that limits my
ability to respond in the moment.

and if I'm in conservation of energy
mode, for instance, which is like

collapse essentially, it's sort
of hibernation mode for humans.

Or it's essential MAMs.

Yeah, yeah.

But you Yeah, exactly.

You just, like, you, your,
your sensory system is not,

what's feeling into the world.

You're, you are essentially
in, in literally introverted

at that moment in time.

And so, By design.

We're not supposed to live in
our sensory, our sympathetic

or fight flight nervous system.

We're supposed to be like
flicking in and out of it.

But now we have a lifestyle set up where
people are in their, in their sympathetic

nervous system and not coming out, they're
not being stimulated to come out of it.

So the sensory system
is getting switched off.

Rupert Isaacson: The brain pressure
no longer has, has anxiety that's

no longer has fresh information.

Jane Pike: And so it's just always
ing on the side of caution and

staying in the, in the reflex system.

And so now we have all of
these pathologies and all

of these behaviors that are,

Rupert Isaacson: so what do you do, with
your web-based business that helps people

to bust out of this and get back to a
more natural way of moving that can then

bring them back to their parasympathetic.

Can you explain, how, how you help?

Jane Pike: Yeah.

So it's, it's, it's not even bringing
back to parasympathetic, it's just

creating that accurate responsiveness.

So not nothing is good or bad.

It's just like if you are supposed
to be there, then you wanna be there.

And if you're not, you're
not, sort of thing.

But we talk about being dominantly
parasympathetic, which for me, in

my life situation, for instance,
I'm not under physiological threat,

so there's no need for me to be,

except for every time you climb
in the saddle, you just, kid

yourself that you're not Yeah, yeah.

True.

But, but, you know, more than
50% of the time I would wanna be

operating out of the parasympathetic.

That might be different if I'm on
the front line in Afghanistan than

it would be more appropriate for me
to be operating for my sympathetic,

more than 50% of the time.

But I use movement-based, processes
and a, a practice that really

activates the sensory system.

So it's all about reengaging the sensory
nerves, habituating the sensory nerves

to send signals to the brain again.

and when that happens, you start
to release some of the patterns

that have been held there in
over different periods of time.

And so essentially what what I'm
working with is a, a brain mapping

or a body mapping process, where
we're updating the brain map.

Cuz your brain map gets distorted
when you are, In sympathetic

for a long period of time.

I've probably complicated things now by
introducing that, but basically just using

movement to activate the sensory system.

Rupert Isaacson: and how do you show,
and what movements do you show people?

Are you falling back in your yoga
or are you doing other things

and how are you all these things?

Jane Pike: I don't do any yoga anymore.

I don't do any yoga.

I don't do any breath work anymore.

I've completely, changed my tag and,

Rupert Isaacson: and so I'm, if I'm,
if I'm a member on this website,

what, what are you showing me and how

Jane Pike: Yeah, so there
are a few different things.

the movement practices themselves
focus, the focus on specific body parts.

So we'll go through like,
what's some examples?

So last week we did like the Tali bone,
which is part of the ankle, and we'll

do, the heel next week and we'll do
the shin and shoulder blades and ribs.

And we've done the rectus a
dominous muscles, we'll do different

developmental movement patterns.

But basically it's based on the premise
that, The body moves differently in

parasympathetic and sympathetic system.

the way that we start to activate
sensory nerves is to bring awareness.

I work with like a two point awareness
process where we focus on two points

in a specific part of the body
and just observe what's happening.

And that starts to activate the
sensory system, which overall kicks

back into the unconscious brain.

And then you start to habituate,
habituate these sensory feedback loops.

But basically it's just like a
movement practice that's, that

focuses on different body parts.

So we're like mapping the body by
going through different structural

parts, noticing different points
on the part of the body that we're

focusing on with view to activating
the sensory system in that area.

And, and that overall starts
to, kick the brain back into a

different mode of functioning.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

And then overall by then going through
these various different parts of

the body, through these different
types of observation and movement,

you get to a sort of a hole at a
certain point where you've sort of

retrained the body and the brain to
basically come to more functionality.

Jane Pike: Yeah.

So if you think of it
or functionality, yeah.

Yeah.

The, we have, something in our
brain called place cells and grid

cells and their cells of location.

So basically my brain is, has
a map of everything that's in

my body, in relationship to.

Each other.

So for instance, it knows where my
wrist is in relationship to my elbow

cap, and it knows where my knees
in relationship to my ankle, and

it also knows where my organs are.

It's at the end of your hands.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It also knows where all my organs
are and all of those sorts of things.

So that's part of my sensory motor
map that's in my, in my brain.

And when that sensory motor map is,
accurate, so when it's, it's updated and

the, the brain has accurate information
about the different location landmarks of

the body, it's able to accurately place
me in relationship to my environment.

And so that is through my sensory system.

I basically got a series of active sensory
feedback loops that are feeling into the

environment, giving my brain information
so my brain can respond accurately.

When we start to get into fight
flight, more often than not that

brain map starts to get distorted.

It can get distorted through paying
attention to sensation too much.

So how I feel, the sensation that's in
my body, that's separate to location.

And when we have a distorted sensory motor
map, the sensory system gets switched off.

And again, the brain's unable to
accurately make decisions, and.

And you experience this all the time.

When you're in a place of like
high anxiety, it's like you're no

longer responding accurately, or
you can see that in someone else.

They just have this kind of complete
discombobulated view of themselves

in relationship to the world.

And so you don't actually have to,
for, for as long as the brain has a

few accu, few active sensory loops
to go on, you can really start to

change your experience of the world.

And so we do that through this two
point process, which is in line with

activating these play cells and grid
cells, which is just an awareness process.

And the other thing is, everything that
I talk about here might sound confusing.

You don't need to know any of
it in order for it to work.

Like you don't need to know how
it works in order for it to work.

It's kind of like the horse boy stuff.

Like if you experience it, it doesn't
matter why or how, like it's just,

it, it will work because there's a way
that the body responds to the process

that allows that to be the case.

And it's the same here.

Like my process is I love to understand
things and there are other people

that love to understand things.

So I lay out these processes
as to this is why it works.

But the reality is if you come in
and just do the practice, you can

understand nothing and still get the
benefits of it because it's just part

of the physi physiological process.

Rupert Isaacson: Did, did you have a
mentor similar to, your mentor with yoga?

Your mentors with yoga?

Yeah.

Who, who, who mentored you in.

This, deep nervous system stuff
because I, you know, I work a lot

with the nervous system with advance
to autism and that sort of thing,

but I haven't dealt, I ha I have not
dived into it as deeply as you have.

And I'm, I'm, I'm fascinated by this.

Who, who, who, who schooled you in this?

Where, what's the story again?

Jane Pike: Yeah, so I, I mean,
I'm still being schooled.

I still have multiple schoolings
schoolings a week, with it and, have

been now for the past few years.

So I initially, Alicia Fado is my mentor.

She works with holistic
biomechanics and Alicia Fado.

Yes.

Yeah.

And so she is my, my person basically,
that I refer to and talk to and

have learnt a huge amount off.

And so when, how did you
find your way to her at?

Was it again, seeking answers for your
own pain, or was it more curiosity?

No, I mean, I mean, that has
been, when we talk about the pain

aspect, I've definitely, like
I'm completely pain free now.

Rupert Isaacson: That's been the, probably
the last five years or so since I study,

and that's been through this work.

So would you say you are the Yes.

This whole, this whole conversation
we've had, which began with forms

of physical and psychological
and emotional physical pain Yes.

Has been a asway.

You could say, I, Joan Pike have
experienced this in my body and brain.

It's mm-hmm.

The shit works, basically.

Jane Pike: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And I see it in my membership as
well, but it's not an easy process.

Rupert Isaacson: How did you,
how did you encounter, Felicia?

I.

Alicia.

Yeah, sorry.

Jane Pike: Yeah, yeah.

I, so Alicia I got the Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You've got, yeah.

So I, let me just think.

So my initial interest, so I started
the work, I guess from a much

more mental skills perspective,
like a top down perspective.

And that was about, kind of
like mental strength, I guess.

Kind of like harnessing mental strength
and like positive thinking and and,

mental toughness and all of those
types of words, which make me throw

up in my mouth a little bit now.

But all of those types of words,
were, were my interests to start with.

And, one of the things about
those things is that you're always

behind the eight ball, right?

You can only change a thought to
a positive thought after you've

already had the negative thought.

And so you're always kind of chasing
your tail a little bit there.

But, the interesting thing is that,
I realized the, that those skills

and understandings had to shelf life.

As far as like, for some people
they worked just sort of depended

on the start, at the start point.

And, and I got to a stage
myself where I was having like

a meltdown in the arena one day.

That wasn't just in relationship to
what was going on, it was more actually

just a life circumstance at the time.

This is at home Lone Horse in New Zealand.

Yeah.

And I remember thinking
like, no, it was at a clinic.

Even worse.

I was at a clinic, with a public,
with an audience, which is clinic.

Rupert Isaacson: For those, for
those non horsey people does not

mean she went to the doctors.

It means, no, but she should have
at that moment a public horse

training event for some weird reason.

We horsey.

People call them clinics.

God knows why.

True.

I've seen that kind of.

Yes, that's true.

What do you mean you went to a
clinic with your horse or they, they

they allowed you to like tie it up
outside or, and then Oh, see, yes,

it's, no, I didn't go to the doctor.

Ok.

So fine.

Yeah.

So you're at, you're at a horse
training event and, and you are at,

you're there as a horse trainer?

Jane Pike: No, I'm there as a student.

Okay.

Yeah.

And you have meltdown?

Yes, I have a meltdown.

I mean, I'm not, I have an internal
meltdown trying to hold it together

and, and I just backing up because,
I think it was more dangerous,

the context of the situation.

I had two, young, very expressive
horses, but that normal,

normal wouldn't bother me.

It was more just, I
think that, expressive.

I had a closer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, also just.

I guess I had a lot of
respect for the trainer.

You know, I really wanted to do a good job
and I felt like I wasn't doing a good job

and there was just, I just put a lot of
pressure on myself to be something other

than what I was able to be in that moment.

And that was what
precipitated the, experience.

But afterwards, it created a whole
change because I was like, well, if I

can't do this based on all the things
I teach and I live and breathe this

stuff, then how can I expect someone
else to do it that perhaps isn't doing

20% of the work that I do, or thinking
about it the way that I think about it?

How can I expect it to work?

And so I had a crisis of sorts after that.

And then I went on a whole different
exploration, which led me in the first

instance to somatic experiencing,
which is a lot of the work that's

based, the of Peter Levine's.

And he does a lot of, you know,
nervous system, trauma based work.

And I did loads and loads of study and
loads of different workshops with, people

who were his colleagues and or students.

And the work that I'm teaching now
was, Alicia was a guest speaker

on one of those, workshops.

Okay.

And I was there thinking, What is this?

Like, this is so random.

Like I just, I a and a little bit like
your, your, your reaction to the, to the

more therapeutic yoga after the hard yoga.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, it was like, but there was a
part of me which was super curious,

and I think that was the intuitive
part that just was like, keep going.

You know, like I had the
little, like, you applied it to

yourself, you've found something.

Yeah.

You've found something.

You need to like,
investigate this further.

And, a lot of the questions that I
had had that had very loose answers

that weren't satisfying to me, you
know, and I think I'm in a fortunate

position in that because I'm teaching
things, I'm not just finding out

things from a personal perspective.

Loose answers don't hold because
I'm gonna be questioned as well.

So it's like, you need to be able to
tell me what's going on here otherwise,

because I need to know, right.

I need to know who this best
suits, who this best fits.

Rupert Isaacson: And, and Alicia
could give you these answers

sort of suddenly she's explaining
it in a way that Yeah, exactly.

Source inside the nervous system.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Quick question.

You say you don't do any yoga
anymore, or any breath work?

No.

Why not?

Why not integrate the two?

What, what, what makes you say,
okay, well I'm moving away.

I've moved away from that now.

Jane Pike: Yeah.

So one thing that I always
encourage people to do is to.

To investigate the lineage of whatever
it is that they are engaging in

as far as processes and not all.

Cause I will, you know, I don't wanna
ever paint the brush, widely across

everything, but a lot of the lineages
of yoga and the ones that I were pr I

was practicing come from, aesthetic.

Aesthetic.

What's not aesthetic?

Aestheticism, aestheticism, aestheticism.

They come from aestheticism.

Ah, removing yourself from the body.

Removing, yeah.

And, and so, and, and a lot of meditation
practices are for that as well, right?

Ah, so like, it's about
moving towards enlightenment.

It's about moving towards
emergence with the divine.

Like in whatever way that
manifests for you, it is body

develop the system, in fact.

Yeah.

And, and it used to be, it used to
be a, got it aspirational to hear

about like these advanced yogis,
quote unquote, who would sit for 21

days and not have food, not need to
go to the toilet, not need to drink,

not have any sort of earthly desires.

And you'd think, wow, that's amazing.

And now I think, wow,
that's dysfunctional.

Like, that's like not
normal for a body, right?

And so I was starting to have a lot of
different physical issues from yoga.

Like, you know, it's very common
for women to lose their period.

It's very common for people to develop,
to develop different body dysmorphic.

Syndromes or disorders.

It's very common.

Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting
cause that isn't talked about.

I I, it's interesting you say it's
very common because I mean, I know

so many people in the yoga world.

I myself had not for very long,
but I had a, I had a, a pretty good

aang yoga practice myself for a
bit until I became a dad and, then

began to self-medicate with beer.

And that went out the window.

Yeah.

But at the, you know, you never heard
any of the Yoginis or any of these

people saying, oh, I lost my period.

Or that if they were, they
certainly it to themselves.

Jane Pike: I was teaching in the up,
I was teaching in the upper echelons

of it at one point, and I'm watching
people who are writing for Yoga journal

and I'm watching people who are like
on Gaia and I'm watching people that

are like, you know, really at the
top, top of the profession there.

And I know them personally and I
know that their reality is different

from what they're teaching.

Okay.

Like, and I'm like,
this is just not right.

Like this is not, something
is really not right here.

And so, For me, you know what I
understand now about many of the

practices is that they take people into
collapse, which is the point, right?

Like you've got, you're supposed
to be at the end of your nervous

system when you pass over.

But the, the collapse feels
better to a lot of people.

A because now sensation is absent
in the body, which feels safer.

Most people equate any sort
of feeling or sensation in the

body with a degree of danger.

You feel more in control because now
your conscious brain and your unconscious

brain are more in alignment because
again, you're not at war with your body.

And so you feel like you
have a semblance of control.

And, that's kind of the, the, the
two things that are most stand out.

And you, you, you, you, you do lose like a
desire because your body's just not in the

place where it's robust enough to have it.

Rupert Isaacson: When you, when you,
so is that the euphoria in collapse?

This is interesting.

Would that be for example?

Jane Pike: Yeah.

In the later stages of collapse, so
like motor neuron disease, ms, a lot

of those things are like the later
stages of collapse and a lot of the

studies they've done with people
show those people to be very happy.

Because the, the, the self-protective
mechanism of the body when it is in

that advanced stage of nervous system,
I don't wanna say degradation cause

that's not the right word, but just of,
of where it's sitting is to actually

like, Create a degree of euphoria as
a handholding mechanism basically.

Pump you full of, pump you full
of Gilbert with hormones to take

you into a, a smooth transition.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: Is that for as well?

Is that the, that Abe has, you
know, when they're looking at the,

while dogs pulling their guts,

Jane Pike: they've gone and they
have the, they have the level of

thoughts and the hallucinations and,
and they're not feeling the Okay.

Maybe DMT being produced
in the pineal gland.

Yeah.

Well, like the, the thing about
the nervous system is it is a,

it is designed to lead you in the
best way possible towards death.

Like, if you think about it, I, I could
see that, I see what you're saying.

Like the body to work
supposed work for you, right?

Yeah.

But it's only supposed to happen
at like six, for six weeks, right.

When you're old.

But now we're stuck in like 40
years in, in the collapse stage,

you know, for, for, for some people.

And so there's, there's this, this
wear and tear that happens, but, okay.

Yeah.

And you know, for me, with the yoga as
well, and I, I'll, I don't know, I think

I can speak for a wider audience when I
say this, in that like a, aside from the

body denial, that idea of like oneness
with consciousness is also, somewhat of

a relief for a lot of people who have.

You know, cultural expectations and
sometimes not great experiences around

sex and relationship and, intimacy.

And so it's a ticket out of that, right?

Like if it takes your away from ticket,
your body, and that's, it's a ticket out

of that to, to think, okay, well I don't,
I just don't even have to deal with that.

Now.

I can be like, I can just be little old me
merging with the universal consciousness,

and I get to deny everything that
feels uncomfortable in my body.

I get to deny everything that
feels uncomfortable emotionally.

I get to deny, deny, deny,
and just move towards this.

And because actually being in a
body affirming, life-affirming

practice is freaking hard, right?

Because then you have to be in life.

And life is hard sometimes.

Rupert Isaacson: I get it.

I get it.

So if you're, but if you're a mom,
you know, dealing with your ki you,

you haven't got that option, right?

You've gotta, you've gotta get up,
you've gotta deal with your kids,

you've gotta have these relationships.

You've gotta, you've gotta deal
with life with the sensory system,

with other people's sensory systems.

Jane Pike: Well, the, the mohans
would say that this is not a

practice for family age people.

Okay?

Okay.

Because you have responsibilities.

This is the practice for when
you get to be, you know, older.

Rupert Isaacson: So if you, if you
are a mom or a dad, going through

what moms and dads go through, then.

And you are firmly stuck in the,

Jane Pike: then the asana part of
the yoga journey is your emphasis

at that point, the posture part.

Okay.

But it becomes less
and less about posture.

Right.

And then it becomes more and
more about, , emergence with

the divine and one point of,

Rupert Isaacson: but, but with your,
with your work, then if I'm me dad,

I'm dad, you know, dealing with
dad stuff, I'll be up early tomorrow

morning dealing with dad's stuff.

There is no choice but to
deal with relationships.

There is no choice but to Yes.

Yes.

Then, then delving into my nervous
system can help me to respond

appropriately to what's in front of me.

Yeah, absolutely.

It just depends what, what
Give, give me tools, right?

Jane Pike: Yeah, absolutely.

It's just about like, now I have the
capacity to show up and meet what I need

to show up for in a way that's real.

Okay.

And some people will opt
out of that, by the way.

Yeah.

Some people will opt out of that because
it bring, brings a degree of discomfort

to be able to meet what's real.

Sometimes you recognize your situation
needs to change or your relationship

needs to change, or you are not
actually doing something that fulfills

you or this wasn't the choice that
you would've liked to have made.

And so you have to meet that.

You have to meet that.

And, and that's takes.

Resilience.

That takes courage, that takes,
you know, a lot of what we're

fed in the world at the moment.

No, I'm gonna go to a
cave and just meditate.

Thanks very much.

Really.

But really you can see that's
an attractive option, right?

Meeting the reality is not
necessarily an attractive option,

but I, I decided that like I would
rather meet the reality in the full

discomfort than be in the delusion.

Rupert Isaacson: So, and was it, in
that meeting of the reality, would you

say that your pain began to dissipate?

Jane Pike: Yeah, so, the body, the way the
body leverages movement is different from

sympathetic, so different from the fight
flight system to the parasympathetic.

So when I'm looking to create
movement in the fight flight

system, it's my lower back and my
neck that leveraged the movement.

The, the lower back is what is
fueling movement in the lower part

of the body and the, neck fuels the
movement of the shoulder girdle,

so moving in and out of the tube.

And I think one of the missing pieces
of information out there is that the,

oh, I've just lost my train of thought,
is that when we, when we think about,

movement patterns, your movement is
either rooted in your sympathetic

nervous system or it's rooted in
your parasympathetic nervous system.

And so the movement
patterns themselves are.

The way that your body creates
movement is basically, a product of

where your nervous system is sitting.

And so for me, I was stuck in a dominant
mode of functioning, if you think about it

like that, like a dominantly sympathetic
or fight flight mode of functioning.

And the way that my body was achieving
everyday activities like walking

around, going up and down steps,
like getting up and down off the

couch was a fight flight action.

The dominant, mode of
functioning was fight flight.

And so even if my emotional framework
didn't warrant a fight, flight response,

the way that my movement was dominantly
geared was in the fight flight system.

So I was just firing off my nervous
system every time I moved around.

So overall, because, my lu spine is
working so hard and my cervical spine

is working so hard, from such an early
age, and we tend to be gifted the nervous

system of our mothers and our primary
caregivers, I was just creating so much

compression and leverage in my body
that it was resulting in, chronic pain.

And so when I changed the underlying
nervous system state and changed

the way that my body was leveraging
movement, I don't get the pain anymore.

Rupert Isaacson: Was that the aha moment?

What point, at what point did you
realize, oh my gosh, this is happening?

Jane Pike: I instantly changed.

So when I got, when I had a
couple of questions answered

that I hadn't had answered for
a long time, I was like, Shit.

Basically that was my first response
because it's like, I've built this body

of work on all of this study I've done
over the last 20 years, and now I'm

sitting here on a Zoom call realizing
that actually I've got some stuff wrong.

And so I am going to completely
redo my program from the ground up.

And that's what I did.

And I told people, I was like, so
you know how you've been working

with me for like a really long time
and we've been doing this stuff?

Rupert Isaacson: Oh really?

You had to go to, by now you've got
the online memberships and all that.

You had to go back and say, oh,
by the way, that was all redid.

Jane Pike: The whole thing.

That was all whole, now we have to, yeah.

Wow.

That's great.

I didn't think, I didn't think it was
all shy, but I was like, I, I've got

some question, I've got some answers
here to holes that have been in the

program and we're gonna take it from
the ground up and I'm gonna change it.

So you've got six months to go through
what I've got here, and in six months

time we're wiping it and starting again.

Rupert Isaacson: Was it when you
went through that kind of reboot?

So you, you, by this time, you've
actually established an, a successful

online business, which presumably
is getting results and helping

people otherwise people would Yes.

It's right.

Right.

It is.

So did you have, did you have
some confusion for people

say, well, hold on Jay.

It's actually working for me.

Why should I, why do I need
to do this other stuff?

Jane Pike: Yeah.

There are definitely people that
were a little cross with me.

Not many.

I think that what I, I guess.

I don't know, maybe people
just didn't tell me.

That's another thing.

The people that talked to me were
very nice, but I guess one of the

things that I have always, how long
ago was this, would you say that?

You, you said Okay.

I, so probably two or three years ago that
I really changed the whole foundation.

Yeah.

Okay.

Quite recently.

Yeah.

And I, I took people a,
i I gave people a chance.

Of course, they didn't
have to stay with me.

And it was quite scary because Yeah, I
bet, you know, I'm the breadwinner and

I've created this successful thing, and
now it's just so intolerable to me to

not be in alignment with what I teach.

I just could, once I knew something
different and I was practicing something

different, I'm like, I can't teach
people any different to what I'm doing.

Like I, that's just, it.

Just So there was no decision, like it
was, well, I guess you were inviting

'em to go along with the evolution.

Yes, but not, but nonetheless,
that is, that is a brave step.

Not everybody would, as you said.

Yes.

You know, some of the yoga people
perhaps that you met were walking one

talk and walking, one walking, and some
things that I teach now are a complete

180 from what I was doing before.

Okay.

And so, but I can say why and, and
I think one of the advantages maybe

that I have within my membership is
that, this is an advantage or not.

I've always been really honest.

Like I'm just, I, I, I really see
myself as adventuring with these,

this group of incredible people.

And I don't.

Discount their opinion or their thoughts,
or, it's not like my way or the highway.

It's just like, this
is, this is information.

Right?

And one of the things that I've really
learned about teaching, and I attempt to

practice in life to varying with varying
degrees of success, is that in order to

be honest, you have to be willing to lose.

So I was willing for everyone to leave me.

I had to be willing for everyone
to leave me in order to be able

to present something new, because
if I wasn't willing for people to

leave, I wouldn't have done it.

And so I was like, okay, I'm just
gonna lay it all on the table.

And, I don't think hardly anyone left.

Like, and then it took a while, there
was a transition, but I'd already

been practicing for a good period of
time before I started teaching it.

Because of course, there's a, and
that was a really annoying part of the

practice as well, because coming from
someone who's like, okay, gimme the book.

Give me all the shit.

I'm gonna sit down for a weekend,
and by Monday I'm gonna have this

nailed, and then I'll teach it.

It wa it wasn't something that I
could, think my way through this

was a, an unconscious, like I had
to have a, a resonance in my body

and understanding in my body of the
process before I could teach it.

And so that required
some practice on my part.

And then I just said, right,
okay, July, we're changing.

You've got this amount of time.

And I started to like cross
pollinate conversations.

So to bring in the material in
conversation before we taught it.

And, and then, and then it took
a while for people to get into.

And, yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: So, so back to the
where we began, which is what this

whole podcast is about, which is
about self-actualization of people

who led self-actualized lives or, and
are leading self-actualized lives.

from the outside observing your,
you appear to be self-actualizing.

What I mean by that, it's, you began with,
a problem to fix and a quest to go on.

Some of it unconscious,
some of it conscious.

And then there were multiple reboots
where every time, this is just sort of

observing the story from the outside,
every time you had sort of achieved a

certain thing in a certain area, whether
it was being the good girl school, whether

it was, the human rights work, whether
it was getting a, a mastery of this

certain aspect of yoga, and then say,
actually no, it's this aspect of yoga.

And then saying, no,
actually I'm going back.

I'm gonna work in retail, but
I'm gonna, I'm gonna write.

And now I'm gonna build that.

And what a confused individual.

And meanwhile I'm gonna keep this
writing thing going parallel.

I've achieved a certain mastery sort
of showing as a teen and young adult.

But now moving away from that, I'm gonna
move into this other aspect of horseman.

You haven't really touched on that
much, but I'd like to come back

and do that in the next podcast.

What, what, what emerges is a picture
of growth where it's almost like you

see, you know, from seedling to sapling
to, I'm not suggesting that you're

a big mature wide tree, but you know
what I mean, you know, mighty, mighty.

But you know, that, that that
this maturing process and is so,

it, it brings into my mind is,
is self, is self-actualization.

In fact, to a large degree
maturing and not maturing mean,

you know, you use growing up, God
forbid any of us ever do that.

And I wonder if the mighty yo, you
know, considers itself to be grown up.

Or it says, actually I still want
to be a, I still want to be a

big grown up tree one day, even
though I'm now a hundred foot tall.

And Yeah.

is that what goes through trees minds?

But the, it, it's really interesting
to see, you know, people.

I'd like to come back this, I think
that every, a lot of listeners will

have questions like, well, how did
you build the business and how did

you, you know, what is the secret
of success of an online thing?

And I, and, and I, I'd like to
invite people to send those questions

and we'll have Jane back Gifting
your spleen to the universe.

That's right.

And, and Jane, we'll explain these
things to you and we will have

another podcast in which you will
send these very natural questions.

And, and Jane will tell you how
to make billions on the internet.

But that's not what you set out to do.

That's, that's the
interesting thing to me.

You didn't sit down and say, okay,
I'm gonna become this super successful

online business showing people how to
get back to their nervous systems in a

way that's gonna improve their lives.

It evolved out of a desire to share
and write about that, which you

knew, which you need to be helpful.

And then from there, you learned some
online business skills, which again, yes.

We, I, I, I, I think we should
have you back and it would be

great to hear how you did that.

Cause I think that's
useful for a lot of people.

But nonetheless, that doesn't seem
to be in the primary motivation.

It seems that the primary motivation
was simply the acquisition

sharing of this knowledge.

Would I be right in saying that?

Jane Pike: Yeah, totally.

I just had a, an energy to do that.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That was, It's a seeking energy as well.

Like it's, I talk about
intellectual energy.

I don't know if that's the right word,
but like, I love to be considering

and seeking and finding information
and and sharing information.

For me that was like a
very rewarding process.

It was, to, to do that and to share
and to find people finding that useful.

And like I said, it was, I mean, it was a
couple of years before I even considered

that that was a, anything there was
anything financially viable in that.

I mean, that was kind of a shock
to even consider that someone

would find me useful in a way that
they would actually wanna pay me.

And that wasn't like a, a
thought in the beginning.

And then, you know, the second thing out
of that, just from a business perspective,

cuz I kind of, well without downplaying
other people's, experiences, I sort of

chuckle to myself sometimes when people
will email me and they'll like, now

I've been doing this thing for three
months now and I haven't made money.

I was like, I work for five
years without making any money.

Like, it's like without even, it's just,
you know, this kind of, I think the,

the internet breeds like an instant idea
of being able to financially translate

something into dollars, you know?

and so not to say that that's gonna be
other people's experience, but just to,

it is, it is sort of difficult to, Yeah.

To, to put a, I've forgotten
the question that you asked me.

I feel like I,

Rupert Isaacson: well, it, it's about
self-actualization and, and so what,

what, what comes to mind, maybe I'll
pose this question slightly differently.

Would you say that actually, one
of the keys to self-actualization

is putting what you do in service?

Jane Pike: Yeah.

And just being unemployable.

I think I'm completely unemployable.

Like the idea of working with someone
else is so unacceptable to me that

like, I, I just, I really loathe and I
mean this, like, I really loathe having

my schedule dictated by someone else.

Yeah.

Like the thought of
having to get up and go.

I just, I actually can't
think of anything worse.

Like, I love to be able to go and I work
really hard actually, but I decide I'm

Pick yourself Jane, your your schedule
is completely dictated by your kids.

That's true.

That's true.

They're your bosses,
but yeah, that's true.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which is why I've struggled so much
in very much I know the feeling.

Yes.

Yeah.

Rupert Isaacson: But it, it seems to
me too that that's been the other,

that's been the other, long, you
know, concurrent par, you know, thread

through the story is that there's been
an element of service at each step.

Oh, totally.

Yeah.

And that without that, I wonder if
one can self-actualize, because.

Without that, you know, it, it's
interesting, like, is somebody who

makes an awful lot of money but
without an element of service, without

an element of sharing, without an
element of, is that self-actualization?

You know, that's, that's a
question for the listeners.

I, you know, I wonder, but it seems to
me that the, you know, fulfillment must

come with a feeling of satisfaction
that you can't just get from dopamine.

Haha, I got these zeros
in my bank account.

I got you.

Well, it, it's gotta come
from something richer.

Well, I think my work, everything
about my work is there's a,

it's reciprocal in nature.

Mm.

Like it's, I benefit in the
best possible way from my work.

I benefit from it not only in knowledge
and I get to share that knowledge,

which if anyone has ever taught
anything, you know, that you really

have to know something to teach it.

Cuz that's shut to show up what
you don't know when you start

to explain it to someone else.

So there's a, you know, I've always
launched myself into sharing knowledge,

which has forced me to really
understand what it is that I am.

Sharing because, that process of
like, you know, learn, do, teach,

I, I, I activate very quickly.

But beyond that, I, I have an incredible
community of people that I work with.

and I include my horses within
that, and they save me many times.

They save me.

You know, I, on tough days or hard
days that we all have, I, I still show

up and I feel different after I've
taught than I do at the beginning.

And that's because it's
not just me, right?

Like it's an energetic exchange and, I
feel equally valued and hopefully they

feel valued and loved and appreciated and
respected, as part of the process as well.

And I think that that's, you
know, that kind of experience is

not something that you would ever
gain by just selling a product.

For me it's, you know, there's a couple of
questions that I get asked, which is like,

how do I get to do what you are doing?

And I'm like, I've got no idea.

Because so much of what I'm doing has
been informed by my life experience.

It's not so much just about like, sure,
you can learn these things, you can

study with these people and you can
do that, but it's not quite just that.

So I don't know.

You kind of, you have to do you, which
is like the, You know, a, a bit of a

hard statement to say, but as well, you
know, there's also a idea of passive

income and of like floating off on
the island and that sort of thing.

And on the one hand, some days
that sounds very, very appealing.

But actually, ultimately when it comes
down to it, I'm not really interested

in just like the, the, the success in
whatever way that has manifested, I

believe comes through the connection.

Having, seen your joy ride
community in action, I was lucky

enough to meet some of them.

I can definitely attest to that.

It seems an unusually mutually
supportive, very incredible.

Like, it's not like, you know, someone,
someone going online to do multi-level

marketing or something like that.

Not necessarily anything wrong with
that, but you know, you know why, you

know why you're getting into that.

You, I, I wanna go and I wouldn't
sold these products in order to

make money so I can get free.

And, but really what people are saying
I feel, I feel when they're going into

those things is, yes, I want to be free.

I feel that the money will make me free.

You have achieved that freedom
and to a large degree that it,

that is also financial money
does give one of these choices.

Obviously you didn't start there,

but I do wonder if, Those who are trying
to go into an online business like yours

with the idea of making money as the
primary goal, even if they were to achieve

that, would they feel self actualized?

Would they feel,

Jane Pike: I, I wonder if
that's enough for what it takes,

you know, for the longevity.

I wonder if that's enough
because it's, it's a lot of work.

Not to say that people are work shy.

It's definitely a lot of work.

Like I, I work a lot.

And so you are doing live
sessions with people all the time.

On, on, on, yeah.

All the time.

And then making content.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

On, on the daily Most, for the most part.

And then, you know, there's hours, right?

Yeah.

There's lots of other things
that come into it, but, and

I mean, maybe it's enough.

Maybe it's enough to keep going.

But for me, I, I mean, I don't
even know how much money I earn.

I've got no idea.

I mean, I don't mean that to sound like
I don't even know how much money I own.

Like I have enough to like, but, but I
don't, I don't look at the Yeah, I don't,

it's not the, you're not keeping score.

No.

And I guess that's a privilege because
there must be enough coming in to not

have to keep score to know that I can pay
the bills each month, which is a thing.

But yeah, it's not like, ooh,
like it's, it's, it's just

like I would keep doing it.

Even if 10 people, five people,
I, I dunno what else I would do.

Like I, if someone said to me, you
know, and, and occasionally you get

used to this question like, what
would you do if you won the lottery?

It's like, well actually, I'd,
I'd be doing the same thing.

I, I would be doing the same thing.

I'd probably have an indoor arena

and there would be a few tweaks, but,
but you know, as far as like where

my life energy is being invested,
I would be doing the same thing.

Yeah.

Just with like a really, really freaking
nice saddle or something else like that.

But like, yeah, like, I'm not
gonna deny things, but Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you, you're, you're
doing that which you love.

Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

Well, with that, I mean, we, we we're at
two and a half hours here and, there's,

there's more that we could go into.

And I think, so one of the things that I
promised the, the, the Liberty rivalry

listeners is that we then will have each
person back to answer the questions.

Oh, I'm sorry about that.

Throw in.

So would you, would you, would you
consent to come back and, absolutely.

Yeah.

So let's have them listeners,
send in your questions to Jane.

She's a wealth of knowledge.

It can be on the, how did you do it?

It can be on the how,
on the, what do you do?

It could be on the,
tell me more about that.

Parasympathetic or sympathetic.

Tell me more about those body maps.

Jane, turned me onto a book.

Is it The Body Has A Mind of Its Own?

Yes, yes.

About body maps and, brain maps,
which even though I thought I

knew quite a lot about the nervous
system, I realized I didn't.

And it was fascinating.

And there's much, much,
much more to learn.

And I think next time we come
back, Jane, I want to talk to you

in more detail about that because
now we've sort of had your story.

I'd like to go into more
depth about this, with

Jane Pike: Yeah, I'm, I'm happy
to answer questions on anything.

Like there's really No,
because it's helpful.

Rupert Isaacson: I, I, I think a
lot of us walk around in a state of

anxiety and we don't even know why.

You know, I, I think, I think
that that's one of the, one of

the symptoms of the modern age.

Hold on.

You know, my life's good.

I've got a nice job.

I, you know, I've got enough
to eat, blah, blah, blah.

Why?

Why do I feel so shit?

And I think that this is a
question at the heart of our, our

societal experience at the moment.

We've never had it so good, really
as a species, and yet we seem to

have never been quite so unhappy.

Yeah.

Why is that?

Jane Pike: And I think as well, like
one of the, platform that's not as

openly or often discussed in this.

I doubt it goes outside what you wanna
talk about here, but maybe it does, but

I'll throw it in here and we can always
talk about it somewhere else as well.

It's just like that, you know, you
and me have done those vitality

workshops together as well, and like
discussed what that means or what that

looks like to live in a vital way.

And, to me, the essence of what I was
attempting to escape from, I think

with a lot of the yoga practices, just
me personally, like, again, I don't

wanna paint a brush, but like, is
really common for people's experiences.

You know, like the, the, the struggles
that we have with like ourselves,

our relationship to ourselves, our
relationship to others, our relationship

to intimacy, our relationship to
sexual expression, our relationship

to passion, all of those things like
really, all the difficult stuff.

We separate them.

Yeah, we separate them, but then
they're, they're not separate.

And yet it's still kind of a little bit
taboo when we talk about this type of,

these types of conversations or just
not as openly discussed or talked about.

And so that's really
interesting to me as well.

I mean, I get lots of, get lots
of, it's not quite the right word.

I, I have the honor of working with a
lot of women in my program that are.

In their seventies or in their
sixties, and they got married very

young and it's like they have one
foot in a time where women's rights

and expectations were very different.

And another foot in this modern era
where they recognize and see all these

different opportunities around them.

And, and perhaps they've changed
and their husband hasn't or like,

you know, and how to negotiate that.

All of the, when we talk about
self-actualization, and I feel

like there's a lot of people in
this like transition point both

in time and both physiologically
and both mentally and emotionally.

That means that they're kind of a
little bit at war with themselves.

And yeah, that being of a sort
of inner schizophrenia almost.

Yeah, this's just a
really interesting point.

I just wanted to throw that in
there alongside the nervous system

stuff and alongside the other stuff.

Cause it's interesting.

Rupert Isaacson: Well, if you, so,
listeners, if you're, if you are, if

you got that, you've got that inner
conflict, send us in the questions.

What do I do about it?

Please, Jane.

Jane will sort you out.

Tell, tell us how people can contact
you and where they can find you.

Jane Pike: Well, you can send love.

You can just sit there and send
really good vibes all the way through

and it'll be happily received.

But if you do wanna directly contact
me, you can jump on my website.

Confident writer.online is
the best place to find me.

And I'm on, on the socials as well.

Or you can email me Jane
competent writer.online and,

Jane Confident writer.online.

Yeah.

And I will merely online reply.

Yeah.

Give me a few days.

Sometimes I'm a little behind on
emails, but it's not personal.

yeah.

So that, that would be
amazing to hear from people.

Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

Well then, I can't wait
till we can have you back.

Jane, thanks so much for such
a pleasure gracing us with

your story and your wisdom.

Happy me.

For those of you, who want to hear
more, we'll be having Jane back, to hear

our other podcast on equine assisted,
interventions, equine Assisted World.

go to us@longridehome.com and if
you're interested in the work we

do with Autism, the Brain, and
all the other stuff, ntls.co.

Neutra, Neutra Learning Systems co.

Send your your questions to Jane, but
do bother with me to send the questions

so that I can ask them of Jane.

So please send the questions, say,
I've got these questions for Jane.

How'd you do it?

Blah, blah, blah.

And then we can have her
back and she can tell us.

All right, Jane, thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

All right, see you next time.

Okay, bye.

Bye.

Thank you for joining us.

We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.

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